RE: The veracity of the bible... & evidence for Christianity

Posted on: October 13, 2017 at 10:15:50 CT

raskolnikov: You believe your book is history.

One cannot have a discussion with someone whose sole claim is that their book is "true". Jesus said it, so there you have it. John said it, so there you have it. Done. Right?

1. The evidence for Christianity is far more than, Hey, we have this book written by some guy who was meditating under a Boddhi tree and we believe him and everything in this book... or anything similar to that.

Skeptics have decided to examine the evidence for Christianity with the goal of proving that it is bogus and have come away convinced that the evidence is very strong... strong enough in fact that they have converted. At least one of those was a lawyer who was determined to use the laws of evidence as would be needed in a court of law... and he is now a Christian after examining the evidence in detail and concluding that it easily met the evidenciary standard as required in a court of law.

2. "The book" is actually a collection of 73 books, written by many different authors, under the influence of the Holy Spirit per Church teaching, over many centuries.

3. Those books are not just a collection of stories and "this is what we believe". They also included many prophecies, which were later fulfilled, which of course, is more evidence for their veracity.

4. Those books also contained much history which had not been recorded elsewhere and at various times was challenged as to its veracity as it didn't match up with the beliefs and understanding of the history per experts from later eras. But there are numerous examples that later archaeological finds or other documents from other completely different historical sources demonstrated that the history and events recorded in the bible were in fact true, despite the contrary beliefs by later historians.

raskolnikov: Again you proved my point. This "our way" or no way approach.

Once again, it all boils down to whether it is true or not. If it is in fact true it would be silly to not point that out. Do you get upset at teachers that are so doctrinaire as to teach their students that 2+2=4 and have a "This "our way" or no way approach."? If they are wrong, either the teachers or the Church, then you are correct, they should not be teaching such a thing. But if they are correct, it would be a tragedy NOT to teach it, even if some other people believe something else... which given the law of non-contradiction, is therefore in fact false.


raskolnikov: You say Jesus said it so it is done. You have no idea what this peasant preacher said first off which mostly blows the whole endeavor. You claim the book is GOD's word. WTF is that? Come on.

Again, we must look at the evidence for its veracity. Those who wrote the New Testament were claiming eye witness testimony. Those who explicitly claimed to be eyewitnesses were all harassed, intimidated, arrested, tortured and eventually killed, other than St. John who was exhiled to the island of Patmos, where he died.

Why would these men leave their jobs and families, make these claims, suffer harassment, imprisonment, and torture and refuse to recant all the way up to and including torture and death? Non-Christian historians of the times recorded much of this, including the claims of miracles witnessed by thousands of their followers. Josephus is one such historian and he was Jewish... and the Jews of that time were themselves persecuting the Christians. The Jewish leaders after all were the ones pushing the Romans to crucify the Christ.

Don't you think it remarkable that a hodge podge group of mostly illiterate fishermen would give up their lives and suddenly decide to endure the wrath of the leaders of their religious community and of the most powerful nation on earth which tortured and persecuted them for centuries with the explicit intention of stamping out this group and their disruptive beliefs... and change the world? They were imprisoned, tortured, fed to the lions, crucified, & burned at the stake among other things but refused to recant what they claimed was their eyewitness testimony. Tens of thousands of their followers attested to similar claims of witnessing miracles and also refused to recant their testimony up to and including the time they were fed to the lions or tortured &/or killed in other ways.

Not only did they convert pagan Rome after centuries of enduring the most horrific of persecutions, but also converted pagan Europe after hordes of barbarians invaded the Roman Empire. Europe was converted to the point that it was known as Christendom. Time was literally split in half due to this rag tag group of Christians persecuted everywhere they went, often by the most powerful nations on earth. Time was literally split in two, into BC (before Christ) and AD (after Christ - from the latin).

raskolnikov: Again no other religions thinks their great and powerful stories actually happened.

Wouldn't this be evidence FOR the truth of Christianity rather than evidence against it? No other religion had literature written prophecying what was to come... no other significant religion has had someone explicitly claiming to be God, much less performing numerous astounding miracles in front of tens of thousands of eyewitnesses, including, of course, predicting that He would die and then rise from the dead... and then doing so.

And the miracles continued with His followers... all the way up to and including to our present day. Multiple miracles are extand today, that have been examined by the top scientists around the world, many of whom were skeptics hoping to prove them to be fraudulent, but who admit that they are completely inexplicable by science via natural means.

raskolnikov: Do you think that Adam and Eve were the first humans and there was a Garden of Eden?

Yes.

raskolnikov: Do you think GOD smote the world with a flood, but picked a special Jew and told him to build a boat?

Yes.

raskolnikov: There was a charismatic teacher who challenged the status quo relationship b/t Jewish hierarchy and a military occupation. He created a ruckus at the Temple and the occupier executed him. That's about it. Your book then claims 500 saw him after. Who? What 500?

As noted above, the evidence is FAR more extensive than you seem to be aware of.

raskolnikov: The Jesus movement was called the Way and he becomes deified years and years following his time. What he TOLD you to do was to eschew materialism and give EVERYTHING you have to the poor. ALL OF IT. Take your staff only. He told you that you cannot serve two masters. IF you want what he had - GIVE EVERYTHING ELSE UP. But you all don't do that. Until you do, you fail to follow him.

That is not accurate. He told an individual that is what He needed to do, after he had already given the correct answer as to what he needed to do to be saved... but he wanted to do more... and Jesus gave him a way to do that. Priests, nuns and others have done that throughout the centuries since then, all the way up to and including today.