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OK, fair enough, your comment was made in the heat of the

Posted on: October 12, 2017 at 22:40:11 CT
JeffB MU
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battle so to speak, but I am still curious as to your response in the context of this discussion.

... I happen to hold the belief that ALL creation is part and parcel and a manifestation of the Divine. I read once that "God" is hidden craftily in his creations so that He is what they are and they are what He is. Western Sufis hold that we (all beings) are but a drop in the vast, vast of Ocean of being, but - the kicker is that that vast, vast Ocean of Being is present in the drop. I like that a lot. Further metaphor holds that our lives are a long, long wave of this ocean which rises from It, forms an individual wave form to rise and crest and crash onto the shore to seep back again into that being from which it rose of which it is. Pretty cool, so much to explore. But, I am a mystic so there you have it. There is nothing but eternity.

How would a Hitler or a Pol Pot fit into this? If Hitler is a drop in the vast, vast Ocean of Being and the vast, vast Ocean of Being is in Hitler, were his war crimes just a part of life, neither "good", nor "bad"? Were the victims just a part of this ongoing life, perhaps waves crashing on sharp rocks, but seeping back into the sea in a never ending process? Were the atrocities committed against them not necessarily "bad"?
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Proving Human Worth: The Atheists Problem - JeffB MU - 10/12 16:37:46
     That is Bullsht, sorry - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 18:57:12
          A few thoughts in response... - JeffB MU - 10/12 20:38:00
               I LOVE Religions - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 22:25:19
                    RE: I LOVE Religions - JeffB MU - 10/12 23:30:46
                         RE: I LOVE Religions - raskolnikov MU - 10/13 08:03:29
                              RE: The veracity of the bible... & evidence for Christianity - JeffB MU - 10/13 10:15:50
                         Christianity has the truth because.. you know the bible - TigerMatt STL - 10/13 02:05:02
                              No. See my answer to rask above: - JeffB MU - 10/13 10:20:32
                              Precisely(nm) - raskolnikov MU - 10/13 08:03:59
               How pathetic and how arrogant - meatiger MU - 10/12 22:02:51
                    The question on the table is whether it would be logical to - JeffB MU - 10/12 22:29:12
                         Because I mostly do not care - meatiger MU - 10/12 22:46:44
                              yet they value each others lives and work together as a comm - JeffB MU - 10/12 23:35:38
                                   The history of religion is written in blood. Look at - TigerMatt STL - 10/13 00:01:07
                                        That is a very simplistic view of religion and does not - JeffB MU - 10/13 10:19:10
                              Another point - meatiger MU - 10/12 22:54:18
                                   Again, it all boils down to 'What is the truth'? - JeffB MU - 10/12 23:41:49
                                        Your religion uses fear - meatiger MU - 10/13 01:51:56
                                             That is a gross distortion of the truth. It is true that - JeffB MU - 10/13 10:31:04
                                        As long as your side wins right?(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/13 00:03:00
                                             Again, it all boils down to what is the truth. Your alternat - JeffB MU - 10/13 10:33:33
               Your last paragraph applies exactly the same for - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 20:45:15
                    The same way Westboro Baptist did - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 20:48:04
          So the God you accept, did he make man - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 19:13:08
               RE: So the God you accept, did he make man - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 19:27:38
                    In the past, you said that abortion wasn't wrong, because - JeffB MU - 10/12 20:02:49
                         You simplify a comment I made in the heat of argument - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 22:29:12
                              OK, fair enough, your comment was made in the heat of the - JeffB MU - 10/12 22:40:11
                         Jeff, as a fellow Christian, ive been ponderung something - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 20:13:16
                              He could destroy the universe, but not eternity'. He is - JeffB MU - 10/12 22:13:20
                                   How contradictory. Second death is eternal separation - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 22:33:48
                                        and your evidence that souls just disintegrate into nothingn - JeffB MU - 10/13 10:49:55
                                   I just do NOT get Dualism, sorry - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 22:32:32
                              Destruction of the soul is not an uncommon belief - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:16:11
                                   WOW (nm) - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 22:33:19
                                   Agree totally(nm) - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 20:16:56
                         Lol (nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:06:32
                    So there is no intention to the creation - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 19:46:00
                    That is all very poetic and romantic - Preacher UMKC - 10/12 19:32:46
                         You cannot begin to interject "reality" into this discussion - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 19:42:41
                              The reality is all around you son - Preacher UMKC - 10/12 19:45:16
                                   You have no concept of rational argument technique. - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 19:48:50
                                        Speaking of befuddled - Preacher UMKC - 10/12 19:53:38
                                             Not really, vis a vis this discussion, for - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 19:57:33
                         "But unfortunately not true". Ha ha right . Uh huh - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 19:35:24
                    Wordworth wrote that our Death is but a sleep and an - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 19:29:24
          It isn't ludicrous. In absence of evidence of a creator - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 19:01:46
               Lol, no. Universe mandates a unifying origin & force(nm) - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 19:26:04
                    Universe must have an origin, but not God, right? - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 19:32:39
                         Right - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 19:57:33
                              Physical laws of the universe did not exist prior to the Big - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:05:34
                                   Why?(nm) - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 20:15:06
                                        The universe did not exist.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:16:45
                                             Sure it did, it was just very compact(nm) - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 20:18:22
                                                  No, it did not exist. - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:21:47
                                                       Statwmwnt of faith - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 20:23:25
                                                            Except those laws dont work at the Big Bang - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:30:40
                                                                 Or perhaps they are completely wrong about the bigbang - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 20:38:36
                                                                      All I know is science & religion is a nice break from - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:54:17
                                                                           RE: All I know is science & religion is a nice break from - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 21:04:01
                                                                      Difference between science and religion though - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:52:37
                                                                           If religion resists testing new ideas, why has it evolved - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 21:01:24
                                                                                U R a PAF, Queer, lol!(nm) - Butcher of Bakersfield STL - 10/13 03:29:09
                         God is! Why does God have to have an origin?.... - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 19:39:42
                              That makes sense. But why should that - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 20:03:10
                                   There is one Alpha Power. Just like the Big Bang, if you - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 20:26:04
                                        What if there were an infinite number of Big Bangs - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:31:43
                                             You’re really missing all of this! Guess you don’t trust or - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 21:19:46
                                   What about the God of an alien species on a distant planet? - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:08:06
                                        What alien species? We are an alien species.... - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 21:22:31
                              Right because the universe appearing out of - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 19:47:06
                                   As I said, limited thinking. If you see a ball roll across - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 20:14:42
                                        The problem is you are applying laws of this - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:18:34
                                             More proof of God & I am not doing that. All you - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 20:31:59
                                                  Not at all. More and more physicists are on board with - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:46:32
                                                       That is simply not true. Those physicists would all - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 21:24:31
                                             Science cant prove that - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 20:21:49
                                                  Actually it can because the laws we know - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:23:21
                                                       They dont break down, they just all give the same answer - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 20:26:37
                                                            RE: They dont break down, they just all give the same answer - Butcher of Bakersfield STL - 10/13 03:27:06
                                   No, a universe appearing out of nothing is impossible(nm) - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 19:59:00
                                        No more impossible than a God.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 20:04:39
                                             I freely and readly admit my belief in God is faith based - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 20:15:49
               There is no logical idea for tbe creation of - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 19:17:48
                    Matter is basically decayed energy (nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 19:27:04
                         And the energy came from where?(nm) - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/12 19:47:09
                              Who knows, but this might not be the only - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 19:59:47
               What do you mean by "a creator" ? - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 19:11:06
     Everyone is an atheist. Why is your god better than - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 17:37:32
          Matt,if you think the way the human body works is random - Macgrantt MU - 10/12 19:18:03
               Ok, here you make an unarguable comment: - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 19:31:49
          The more science evolves, the more it proves the - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 18:46:09
               No. It proves no such thing. Of course, you have - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 19:36:29
               Wow, we agree ? What's with that?(nm) - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 19:12:31
               Lol wow. Not even close.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 18:48:44
                    Of course it’s close. So close it is fact! The huge majority - STL1DFW STL - 10/12 19:24:59
                         Show me the stats a huge majority of scientists - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 19:31:48
                              Here's some. - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 19:39:41
          RE: Everyone is an atheist. Why is your god better than - sarasotatiger MU - 10/12 18:34:49
          LOL no - JG MU - 10/12 17:54:37
               You are way out of your league here. Best go back - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 18:03:24
                    Lol - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/12 18:07:54
                         LOL - JG MU - 10/12 18:08:54
                    I know I am - JG MU - 10/12 18:05:47
                         I know what atheist means, you don't. - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 18:15:01
                              Thanks for proving what a dishonest moran you is - JG MU - 10/12 18:16:15
                                   You have a serious detachment from reality.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 18:18:38
                                        Well your delusional version of it, at least - JG MU - 10/12 18:19:23
                                             Again, you are a moron.. Justin Martyr wrote in The First - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 18:29:45
                                                  Learn you some English - JG MU - 10/12 18:42:28
                                                       I can't help that you can't even use a dictionary.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 18:49:51
                                                            Doormattiny - JG MU - 10/12 19:00:22
                                                                 Down to childish made up words matching your - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 19:20:36
                                                                      LOL - JG MU - 10/12 19:21:36
                                                                           You are good at it. Maybe you can get on TV(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 19:34:38
     Agnostics got it together. - Toger STL - 10/12 17:08:07
     There is so much there which makes no sense. - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 16:59:09
          RE: 'I've love to hear some explanation here' - JeffB MU - 10/12 18:13:13
               One of your fallacies is that to sum up the - GA Tiger MU - 10/12 18:38:11
                    Please show me where I have misrepresented what - JeffB MU - 10/13 10:46:41
     Buddism - Knucklehead MU - 10/12 16:50:07
          Wow, that is simplistic and pretty wrong - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 19:02:50
          So what value did Buddha put upon human life? - JeffB MU - 10/12 16:54:56
               Through contemplation - Knucklehead MU - 10/12 16:59:31
                    From what I can tell, Buddhists pretty much disengage - JeffB MU - 10/12 17:34:09
                         There are millions and millions of Buddhists who are not - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 19:04:42
                              In fact, the Buddha tried asceticism and did not adopt it(nm) - raskolnikov MU - 10/12 19:06:09
                         Lol no (nm) - pickle MU - 10/12 18:37:30
                         RE: From what I can tell, Buddhists pretty much disengage - sarasotatiger MU - 10/12 18:28:57
     One giant logical fallacy (nm) - pickle MU - 10/12 16:39:22
          You have never been able to put together a cogent argument - JeffB MU - 10/12 16:47:26
               RE: You have never been able to put together a cogent argument - sarasotatiger MU - 10/12 18:32:50
               Another logical fallacy - pickle MU - 10/12 17:07:17
                    Perhaps not. The article was just pointing out what I have - JeffB MU - 10/12 17:38:33
                         I have always said there is no meaning to life - pickle MU - 10/12 17:51:13
                              It is good that you know that that is the logical conclusion - JeffB MU - 10/13 08:58:18
                         Why does there have to be some special meaning - TigerMatt STL - 10/12 17:41:03
                              This is not 'proof' per se that atheism is false, but rather - JeffB MU - 10/13 08:56:52




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