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If that is truly your goal, it's simple. Eliminate driving.

Posted on: August 22, 2016 at 15:11:22 CT
90Tiger STL
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People will drive drunk, Spanky.

if you make drinking illegal, they will drink.

the question is what liberties and costs are you willing to exchange for what level of prevention.

I have a different trade paradigm and value system than you do.

I'm going to guess you support the 2nd amendment and accept gun deaths, even accidental discharge as a cost of that liberty.

Right?
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In pickletopia, this is an unavoidable accident. - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:11:13
     Apparently, it's unavoidable in Spanktopia. Also, this - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:17:33
          In cases where tragedy is avoided by taking the drunk driver - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:00:30
               what tragedy are you claiming is avoided, Jeff? (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:20:30
                    Tragedies avoided because people did not drive drunk, or - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:37:09
                         tragedies can be prevented in a ton of ways, Jeff, what is - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:44:25
                              Various states have experimented with various strategies - JeffB MU - 8/22 15:57:46
                              How do YOU propose preventing Drunk Drivers killing - Spanky KU - 8/22 14:57:28
                                   If that is truly your goal, it's simple. Eliminate driving. - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:11:22
                                        Is that your answer? Really? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:13:10
                                             You can eliminate everything if you're willing to pay the - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:14:59
                                                  Why not attack the leading causes? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:16:31
                                                       The only common cause is driving. The logical way to do - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:21:24
                                                            Nope.. The only common cause is breathing - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:25:07
                                                                 the common cause is birth. eliminate birth. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:28:09
                                                       So then eliminate all driving. (nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:18:51
                                                            reductio ad absurdum. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:19:55
                                                                 Less than 5% of all traffic fatalities are people hit by a - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:23:45
                                                                      Less than 1% of all gun fatalities are from monkeys firing - JeffB MU - 8/22 16:11:45
                                                                      That is not factual - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:29:08
                                                                           Do you have a hard time reading? Those numbers INCLUDE - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:33:19
                                                                                Can you show me that factoid? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:38:06
                                                                                     RE: Can you show me that factoid? - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:39:41
                                                                                          so 3,576 (36% ) dead people were not the drunk driver... - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:10:58
                                                                                               Why do you include passengers since the vast - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:19:42
                                                                                                    Link on the BAC of the passengers? - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:32:25
                                                                                                         No one deserves to die. No one deserves to be arrested - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:47:22
                                                                                                              Yes.. they do deserve to get arrested for endangering - Spanky KU - 8/22 18:11:38
                                                                      RE: Less than 5% of all traffic fatalities are people hit by a - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:27:44
                                                                           And like I said.. 80% of those who died were the - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:28:57
                                                                                and 20% weren't. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:30:42
                                                                                     Which are only a tiny fraction of accident fatalities. Yet - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:36:52
                                                                                          RE: Which are only a tiny fraction of accident fatalities. Yet - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:40:03
                                                                                               God damn.. read. We are talking about victims - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:43:04
                                                                                                    so their lives are worth less. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:44:13
                                                                                                         That is BS if you think someone drunk doesnt make an active - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:48:17
                                                                                                              yes, if you take reductio ad absurdum to heart - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:49:57
                    I saw a movie about this. Minority Report. (nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:35:42
               How do you know tragedy was avoided? Only a small fraction o - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:04:04
                    link? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:04:50
                         Traffic fatalities is not the same as number of traffic - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:17:44
                              What's your point? - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:12:26
                                   It isnt good, it isnt safe, but it is no more damnable than - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:24:46
                                        and do you think I am defending texting while driving? - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:31:27
                                             There is no comparison. Getting a DWI is far more damaging - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:33:33
                                                  Because driving drunk is a continuous event - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:56:19
                                                       1 in 4 accidents are caused by texting while driving.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 18:10:13
                                                            Not true... Only 5% of cellphone-related crashes occur - Spanky KU - 8/22 18:15:52
                    The same could be said of almost any action that leads to - DHighlander KC - 8/22 14:14:08
                         No one argues people have a right to drive drunk or fire sho - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:19:56
                              The point is that dangerous behavior should be stopped - DHighlander KC - 8/22 14:38:06
                                   Checkpoints are a disgrace to any liberty-minded conservativ - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:49:20
                                        driving in not a right no matter how many times you, pickle - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:14:33
                                        I would support breathalyzers installed as standard auto - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:56:37
                                             Even easier and more complete - just have the air in cars - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:16:00
                    That's true. My point is that 90Tiger's point is not a very - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:13:14
                         Jeff, this tragedy proves that laws against drunk driving do - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:21:22
                              laws aren't designed to prevent activities and - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:11:23
                                   But that was the very original post. Prevention.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:24:50
                              No one claimed it prevented the activity (completely), - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:40:16
                                   Sure, Jeff, and you can make all cars require a breathalyzer - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:46:36
                                        For the same reason you favor speed limits... but don't - JeffB MU - 8/22 15:52:33
                                             No, Jeff. Govt is siphoning off billions to enforce these - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:57:46
                                                  Why the scare quotes, as pickle calls them, around - JeffB MU - 8/22 16:04:05
                                                       I have had multiple friends killed by drunk drivers. It sti - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:29:38
                                                            So you think there should be no objective limit to how much - JeffB MU - 8/22 17:56:19
                                                                 There should be no limit. If someone is impaired - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 18:09:24
                                                                      No one is a safe driver at .20 or above. You don't think - JeffB MU - 8/22 20:45:43
                                        cause it already exists. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:22:03
          regarding your post from the link provided, who is going to - tigerNkc KC - 8/22 13:24:46
               So if you accidentally kill someone you need to hurry out - DHighlander KC - 8/22 14:19:46
                    no, not right, but if misrepresenting something you don't - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:29:38
               That's an interesting, if different subject, but if you're - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:41:06
                    so, just another government like he stated. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:43:23
          Killing those 3 is an offense in pickletopia, but you have - JeffB MU - 8/22 13:23:43
               You struggle with the difference between arguing that - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:45:21
                    But it seems a bit incongruous to think that you, pickle & - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:05:02
                         That's because you're an idiot (nm) - pickle MU - 8/22 15:39:57
                              can't even try to back up your point, can you? - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:46:37
                         Jeff, none of us gets bent out of shape about those - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:17:44
                    there is no difference. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:46:39
          NOpe.. In the real world, many drunks are arrested BEFORE - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:20:26
               There is no evidence they ever would have done so either.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:48:36
               Clearly the current laws don't prevent people from driving - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:43:04
                    appeal to omniscience. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:44:58
                         If they prevented it, it wouldnt ever happen. (nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:46:24
                              it's not all or nothing. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:49:57
                                   Exactly, so some are wrongingly judged for causing no - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:51:31
                                        Are you against all traffic laws, or at least against all - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:16:38
                                             We already have laws such as vehicular manslaughter to cover - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:32:00
                                                  Putting someone in jail after they have already killed &/or - JeffB MU - 8/23 09:45:58
                                                  some people only learn - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:07:13
                                        just as false as saying they "never" do - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:52:42
               you have no idea if those arrested would have killed or - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:41:55
                    but you know the law doesn't prevent people from - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:46:13
     How is that murder instead of manslaughter. - GA Tiger MU - 8/22 13:15:16
     Cell phone use is 6 times more likely to cause an - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:15:06
          Why is that? Because there are 200 times more - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:18:07
               No, that isnt what the stat is based on. It is based on - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:32:12
                    Not just cell phones, many forms of distracted driving - DHighlander KC - 8/22 13:39:56
                    And is it illegal to text and drive? It is in my state. - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:34:45
                         Do you see texting and driving check points? Loss of drivers - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:45:34
                              That would be fairly stupid to have a checkpoint... - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:54:16
                                   Pretty obvious to check text activity and time stamps Spanky - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:30:21
                                        Even easier to delete text messages prior to seeing the cop - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:17:51
                                             Doesnt work. NY bill will allow police to carry devices tha - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:53:17
                                                  And? So then cops could stop them? Good! - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:13:55
                                                       Except that time your wife texts you on your way home from - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:22:09
                                                            My wife doesn't text me... we are old and talk to each - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:33:36
                                                                 Lol! No better than a drunk driver. - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:51:09
                                                  poor spanky is all twisted up (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:58:25
                                             90 takes the reductio ad absurdum to new highs daily. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:18:35
                                                  Sometimes I wonder when MU alums will petition - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:26:39
                                   Text messages have time stamps. It can be determined if they - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:57:36
                                        Can it? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:06:19
                                             The law will be the law - don't want to go to jail, don't - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:17:53
                                                  Do you think that will pass muster? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:18:46
                                        It is not far fetched for the police to start asking - ummmm MU - 8/22 14:49:28
                         It's illegal to drive drunk too, so what is your point? (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:43:49
                              BOTH are illegal. I applaud both laws. - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:55:00
                         Hands free use showed no impact on severity of - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:42:26
                         Cell phone use is still distracted driving, not as bad as - DHighlander KC - 8/22 13:40:59
                              People dont want their bubble to be burst that they - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:43:58
     Pickle has never stated that there would be no rules - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:14:36
          sure he has, all the time - TigerJackSwartz MU - 8/22 13:19:51
               That's a different issue. - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:24:45
                    He doesn't recognize driving is a privilege and not a right - Tigrrrr! MU - 8/22 13:30:24
                         Because it is a right, not a privilege - pickle MU - 8/22 14:09:38
                              incorrect. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:15:46
                              Damn....just like chumming for bluegill. - Tigrrrr! MU - 8/22 14:23:15
                         Driving is not a privilege. (nm) - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:41:24
                              driving is not a right. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:42:45
                         yes, that is one of his problems here. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:31:22
                              And of course how he steps around issues by claiming - Tigrrrr! MU - 8/22 13:34:16
                    No.. It is a germane issue - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:29:13
                         How often are speeders or texters removed from the road?(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:01:41
                              Once stopped, they are no longer speeding. A drunk diver - Spanky KU - 8/22 18:58:54
                         In "pickletopia", it is a matter of contract - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:30:15
                              You are unbelievably ignorant - FootballRefugee MU - 8/22 13:39:58
                                   Spanky is arguing what it would be in "pickletopia". focus (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:46:14
                                        And you stated that a drunk driver would not be stopped - Spanky KU - 8/22 14:55:29
                                        I am focused, and you are one of the idiots. - FootballRefugee MU - 8/22 14:25:13
                              It is a matter of a contract in every state... - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:32:57
                                   Incorrect (nm) - pickle MU - 8/22 13:43:14
                                        you keep posting that as though repeating something wrong - FootballRefugee MU - 8/22 13:47:56
                                   First of all, driving is not a privilege - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:40:23
                                        first of all, it is a privilege. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:42:12
                              once again, distinction without a difference. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:32:15
                    incorrect. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:26:42
          Did you click on the link I provided? - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:19:10
               I said "rules" not "laws" - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:25:29
                    They are synonymous terms in this case - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:31:16
                         that you think they are synonymous is precisely why you - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:47:44
                              there is no difference. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:48:49
                         Not they are not. See above. (nm) - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:46:34
                              please provide evidence that such a contract would be - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:50:41
                         Incorrect (nm) - pickle MU - 8/22 13:42:40
                         and no one forces someone to get a DL. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:32:56
                              Yep.. one must apply for that privilege and pass a written t - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:36:33
                                   Also incorrect (nm) - pickle MU - 8/22 14:02:11
                    distinction without a difference. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:26:14
          is every murder showing the failure of laws against - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:16:13
               Did you really just ask a Pickletopian to think? - DHighlander KC - 8/22 13:18:32
                    What is your hang up here? - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:26:56
                         Would that be a social contract? - Mormad MU - 8/22 13:31:21
                              You answered your own question - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:41:06
                              an actual agreement with every single individual who uses - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:38:18
                                   There are only 4 million licensed drivers in Missouri. - DHighlander KC - 8/22 13:47:00
                         there is no difference. an infringement is an infringement - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:28:22
                    i'm an optimist. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:19:04




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