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That's true. My point is that 90Tiger's point is not a very

Posted on: August 22, 2016 at 14:13:14 CT
JeffB MU
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good one.

Spanky posted a story about a great tragedy due to a person who decided to drive drunk, with the intention of showing the type of terrible tragedies that are avoided by laws against drunk driving.

90Tiger's point was that this tragedy happened despite laws against drunk driving.

My counter point was that tragedies, like the one Spanky pointed out, are the only ones that could possibly be used to illustrate the downside to eliminating laws against driving drunk.

There are likely no stories printed about the 3 other deaths avoided in that city because of a driver who was arrested for a DWI before he killed anyone or by the 5 other deaths that were avoided because someone took a taxi home, or didn't go out, or found a designated driver or stopped drinking an hour or two earlier because he didn't want to get a DWI.
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In pickletopia, this is an unavoidable accident. - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:11:13
     Apparently, it's unavoidable in Spanktopia. Also, this - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:17:33
          In cases where tragedy is avoided by taking the drunk driver - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:00:30
               what tragedy are you claiming is avoided, Jeff? (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:20:30
                    Tragedies avoided because people did not drive drunk, or - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:37:09
                         tragedies can be prevented in a ton of ways, Jeff, what is - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:44:25
                              Various states have experimented with various strategies - JeffB MU - 8/22 15:57:46
                              How do YOU propose preventing Drunk Drivers killing - Spanky KU - 8/22 14:57:28
                                   If that is truly your goal, it's simple. Eliminate driving. - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:11:22
                                        Is that your answer? Really? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:13:10
                                             You can eliminate everything if you're willing to pay the - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:14:59
                                                  Why not attack the leading causes? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:16:31
                                                       The only common cause is driving. The logical way to do - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:21:24
                                                            Nope.. The only common cause is breathing - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:25:07
                                                                 the common cause is birth. eliminate birth. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:28:09
                                                       So then eliminate all driving. (nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:18:51
                                                            reductio ad absurdum. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:19:55
                                                                 Less than 5% of all traffic fatalities are people hit by a - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:23:45
                                                                      Less than 1% of all gun fatalities are from monkeys firing - JeffB MU - 8/22 16:11:45
                                                                      That is not factual - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:29:08
                                                                           Do you have a hard time reading? Those numbers INCLUDE - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:33:19
                                                                                Can you show me that factoid? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:38:06
                                                                                     RE: Can you show me that factoid? - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:39:41
                                                                                          so 3,576 (36% ) dead people were not the drunk driver... - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:10:58
                                                                                               Why do you include passengers since the vast - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:19:42
                                                                                                    Link on the BAC of the passengers? - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:32:25
                                                                                                         No one deserves to die. No one deserves to be arrested - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:47:22
                                                                                                              Yes.. they do deserve to get arrested for endangering - Spanky KU - 8/22 18:11:38
                                                                      RE: Less than 5% of all traffic fatalities are people hit by a - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:27:44
                                                                           And like I said.. 80% of those who died were the - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:28:57
                                                                                and 20% weren't. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:30:42
                                                                                     Which are only a tiny fraction of accident fatalities. Yet - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:36:52
                                                                                          RE: Which are only a tiny fraction of accident fatalities. Yet - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:40:03
                                                                                               God damn.. read. We are talking about victims - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:43:04
                                                                                                    so their lives are worth less. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:44:13
                                                                                                         That is BS if you think someone drunk doesnt make an active - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:48:17
                                                                                                              yes, if you take reductio ad absurdum to heart - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:49:57
                    I saw a movie about this. Minority Report. (nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:35:42
               How do you know tragedy was avoided? Only a small fraction o - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:04:04
                    link? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:04:50
                         Traffic fatalities is not the same as number of traffic - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:17:44
                              What's your point? - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:12:26
                                   It isnt good, it isnt safe, but it is no more damnable than - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:24:46
                                        and do you think I am defending texting while driving? - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:31:27
                                             There is no comparison. Getting a DWI is far more damaging - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:33:33
                                                  Because driving drunk is a continuous event - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:56:19
                                                       1 in 4 accidents are caused by texting while driving.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 18:10:13
                                                            Not true... Only 5% of cellphone-related crashes occur - Spanky KU - 8/22 18:15:52
                    The same could be said of almost any action that leads to - DHighlander KC - 8/22 14:14:08
                         No one argues people have a right to drive drunk or fire sho - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:19:56
                              The point is that dangerous behavior should be stopped - DHighlander KC - 8/22 14:38:06
                                   Checkpoints are a disgrace to any liberty-minded conservativ - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:49:20
                                        driving in not a right no matter how many times you, pickle - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:14:33
                                        I would support breathalyzers installed as standard auto - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:56:37
                                             Even easier and more complete - just have the air in cars - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:16:00
                    That's true. My point is that 90Tiger's point is not a very - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:13:14
                         Jeff, this tragedy proves that laws against drunk driving do - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:21:22
                              laws aren't designed to prevent activities and - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:11:23
                                   But that was the very original post. Prevention.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:24:50
                              No one claimed it prevented the activity (completely), - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:40:16
                                   Sure, Jeff, and you can make all cars require a breathalyzer - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:46:36
                                        For the same reason you favor speed limits... but don't - JeffB MU - 8/22 15:52:33
                                             No, Jeff. Govt is siphoning off billions to enforce these - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:57:46
                                                  Why the scare quotes, as pickle calls them, around - JeffB MU - 8/22 16:04:05
                                                       I have had multiple friends killed by drunk drivers. It sti - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:29:38
                                                            So you think there should be no objective limit to how much - JeffB MU - 8/22 17:56:19
                                                                 There should be no limit. If someone is impaired - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 18:09:24
                                                                      No one is a safe driver at .20 or above. You don't think - JeffB MU - 8/22 20:45:43
                                        cause it already exists. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:22:03
          regarding your post from the link provided, who is going to - tigerNkc KC - 8/22 13:24:46
               So if you accidentally kill someone you need to hurry out - DHighlander KC - 8/22 14:19:46
                    no, not right, but if misrepresenting something you don't - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:29:38
               That's an interesting, if different subject, but if you're - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:41:06
                    so, just another government like he stated. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:43:23
          Killing those 3 is an offense in pickletopia, but you have - JeffB MU - 8/22 13:23:43
               You struggle with the difference between arguing that - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:45:21
                    But it seems a bit incongruous to think that you, pickle & - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:05:02
                         That's because you're an idiot (nm) - pickle MU - 8/22 15:39:57
                              can't even try to back up your point, can you? - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:46:37
                         Jeff, none of us gets bent out of shape about those - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:17:44
                    there is no difference. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:46:39
          NOpe.. In the real world, many drunks are arrested BEFORE - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:20:26
               There is no evidence they ever would have done so either.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:48:36
               Clearly the current laws don't prevent people from driving - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:43:04
                    appeal to omniscience. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:44:58
                         If they prevented it, it wouldnt ever happen. (nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:46:24
                              it's not all or nothing. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:49:57
                                   Exactly, so some are wrongingly judged for causing no - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:51:31
                                        Are you against all traffic laws, or at least against all - JeffB MU - 8/22 14:16:38
                                             We already have laws such as vehicular manslaughter to cover - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:32:00
                                                  Putting someone in jail after they have already killed &/or - JeffB MU - 8/23 09:45:58
                                                  some people only learn - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:07:13
                                        just as false as saying they "never" do - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:52:42
               you have no idea if those arrested would have killed or - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:41:55
                    but you know the law doesn't prevent people from - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:46:13
     How is that murder instead of manslaughter. - GA Tiger MU - 8/22 13:15:16
     Cell phone use is 6 times more likely to cause an - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:15:06
          Why is that? Because there are 200 times more - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:18:07
               No, that isnt what the stat is based on. It is based on - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:32:12
                    Not just cell phones, many forms of distracted driving - DHighlander KC - 8/22 13:39:56
                    And is it illegal to text and drive? It is in my state. - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:34:45
                         Do you see texting and driving check points? Loss of drivers - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:45:34
                              That would be fairly stupid to have a checkpoint... - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:54:16
                                   Pretty obvious to check text activity and time stamps Spanky - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 14:30:21
                                        Even easier to delete text messages prior to seeing the cop - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:17:51
                                             Doesnt work. NY bill will allow police to carry devices tha - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 15:53:17
                                                  And? So then cops could stop them? Good! - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:13:55
                                                       Except that time your wife texts you on your way home from - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:22:09
                                                            My wife doesn't text me... we are old and talk to each - Spanky KU - 8/22 16:33:36
                                                                 Lol! No better than a drunk driver. - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 16:51:09
                                                  poor spanky is all twisted up (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:58:25
                                             90 takes the reductio ad absurdum to new highs daily. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:18:35
                                                  Sometimes I wonder when MU alums will petition - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:26:39
                                   Text messages have time stamps. It can be determined if they - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:57:36
                                        Can it? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:06:19
                                             The law will be the law - don't want to go to jail, don't - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 15:17:53
                                                  Do you think that will pass muster? - Spanky KU - 8/22 15:18:46
                                        It is not far fetched for the police to start asking - ummmm MU - 8/22 14:49:28
                         It's illegal to drive drunk too, so what is your point? (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:43:49
                              BOTH are illegal. I applaud both laws. - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:55:00
                         Hands free use showed no impact on severity of - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:42:26
                         Cell phone use is still distracted driving, not as bad as - DHighlander KC - 8/22 13:40:59
                              People dont want their bubble to be burst that they - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 13:43:58
     Pickle has never stated that there would be no rules - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:14:36
          sure he has, all the time - TigerJackSwartz MU - 8/22 13:19:51
               That's a different issue. - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:24:45
                    He doesn't recognize driving is a privilege and not a right - Tigrrrr! MU - 8/22 13:30:24
                         Because it is a right, not a privilege - pickle MU - 8/22 14:09:38
                              incorrect. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 15:15:46
                              Damn....just like chumming for bluegill. - Tigrrrr! MU - 8/22 14:23:15
                         Driving is not a privilege. (nm) - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:41:24
                              driving is not a right. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:42:45
                         yes, that is one of his problems here. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:31:22
                              And of course how he steps around issues by claiming - Tigrrrr! MU - 8/22 13:34:16
                    No.. It is a germane issue - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:29:13
                         How often are speeders or texters removed from the road?(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 8/22 14:01:41
                              Once stopped, they are no longer speeding. A drunk diver - Spanky KU - 8/22 18:58:54
                         In "pickletopia", it is a matter of contract - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:30:15
                              You are unbelievably ignorant - FootballRefugee MU - 8/22 13:39:58
                                   Spanky is arguing what it would be in "pickletopia". focus (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:46:14
                                        And you stated that a drunk driver would not be stopped - Spanky KU - 8/22 14:55:29
                                        I am focused, and you are one of the idiots. - FootballRefugee MU - 8/22 14:25:13
                              It is a matter of a contract in every state... - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:32:57
                                   Incorrect (nm) - pickle MU - 8/22 13:43:14
                                        you keep posting that as though repeating something wrong - FootballRefugee MU - 8/22 13:47:56
                                   First of all, driving is not a privilege - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:40:23
                                        first of all, it is a privilege. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:42:12
                              once again, distinction without a difference. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:32:15
                    incorrect. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:26:42
          Did you click on the link I provided? - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:19:10
               I said "rules" not "laws" - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:25:29
                    They are synonymous terms in this case - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:31:16
                         that you think they are synonymous is precisely why you - 90Tiger MU - 8/22 13:47:44
                              there is no difference. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:48:49
                         Not they are not. See above. (nm) - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:46:34
                              please provide evidence that such a contract would be - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:50:41
                         Incorrect (nm) - pickle MU - 8/22 13:42:40
                         and no one forces someone to get a DL. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:32:56
                              Yep.. one must apply for that privilege and pass a written t - Spanky KU - 8/22 13:36:33
                                   Also incorrect (nm) - pickle MU - 8/22 14:02:11
                    distinction without a difference. - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:26:14
          is every murder showing the failure of laws against - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:16:13
               Did you really just ask a Pickletopian to think? - DHighlander KC - 8/22 13:18:32
                    What is your hang up here? - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:26:56
                         Would that be a social contract? - Mormad MU - 8/22 13:31:21
                              You answered your own question - ummmm MU - 8/22 13:41:06
                              an actual agreement with every single individual who uses - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:38:18
                                   There are only 4 million licensed drivers in Missouri. - DHighlander KC - 8/22 13:47:00
                         there is no difference. an infringement is an infringement - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:28:22
                    i'm an optimist. (nm) - mizzou alum 93 MU - 8/22 13:19:04




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