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I think most of that is entirely subjective based on

Posted on: February 18, 2017 at 22:50:17 CT
tjwheeler UI
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what you want to believe.

If you want a program that has been considered a sleeping giant, it's Illinois. Kruger and Self were very good coaches and they thrived.

Illinois has the better recruiting base, better tradition, better conference.

And if it were easy to rack up wins in the SEC, MU would have more SEC wins.
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My top 16 list of HC candidates (updated)... - zounami MU - 2/18 20:34:29
     Mark Gottfiried should be on no one's list - Hoosier Daddy1 IU - 2/19 10:30:47
     Not bad but Keatts needs to be a lot higher - alwaysright MU - 2/19 09:20:00
     RE: My top 16 list of HC candidates (updated)... - hondo MU - 2/19 09:10:13
     Gregg Marshall makes $3.3 million a year - ERB KC - 2/18 21:49:41
          There is Talk of Wichita changing comferences, AAC - MoGold MU - 2/18 23:20:12
          He's worth as much as $6 million per year. (nm) - zounami MU - 2/18 22:02:40
               RE: He's worth as much as $6 million per year. (nm) - hondo MU - 2/19 09:13:11
               I say $74 GOLL DURN MILLION!!!!!!!!!1 A MONTH!!!!1 - Mothball MU - 2/18 22:50:24
                    Over the course of 12 years, yes. (nm) - zounami MU - 2/18 22:53:29
     I see only a few of those as realistic possibilities - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 21:49:26
          Dayton is not a better job than Mizzou - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 21:51:25
               Agreed, it's not even close. (nm) - zounami MU - 2/18 22:17:31
               Over last ten years: - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:03:56
                    He said "job". Obviously, Dayton has had consistent success - zounami MU - 2/18 22:20:12
                         All Time wins: MU 1595 (38th) Dayton 1586 (42nd) - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:29:21
                              1) Wins doesn't factor in SoS.. Look at # of NCAA tournament - zounami MU - 2/18 22:38:39
                                   Dayton's success isn't just under Miller. - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:46:47
                                        You're better than this sort of silly flaming, TJ - AndyTiger MU - 2/19 00:08:30
                                             Not flaming at all. I think MU is better but Dayton is - tjwheeler UI - 2/19 11:09:31
                                                  We're two years removed from 6 straight put seasons - AndyTiger MU - 2/19 17:44:07
                                             no he isn't (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 2/19 08:41:20
                                        Regarding Missouri and Illinois, you should read this SI... - zounami MU - 2/18 22:53:02
                                             I've read it and didn't draw that conclusion. - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:56:31
                                                  Of course you didn't, with your orange-tinted glasses. (nm) - zounami MU - 2/18 23:02:05
                                                       And your black and gold-tinted glasses. (nm) - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 23:20:19
                    You are misunderstanding current results - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 22:14:55
                         How am I misunderstanding current results?(nm) - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:17:53
                              current result are not how good the job is (nm) - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 22:21:24
                                   Current results from last decade is a decent metric(nm) - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:29:54
                                        Not really, but even if you want to look at 2008-2017... - zounami MU - 2/18 22:32:32
                                             I was comparing Dayton and Missouri. - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:37:05
                                                  You're the one who said "results from last decade is a - zounami MU - 2/18 22:40:19
                                                       I was using it to compare MU and Dayton and also - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:48:11
                                                            If Miller had been the coach at Illinois or Mizzou - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 23:00:30
                    Agree-- in terms of recent success and history, the - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 22:12:52
               They sell out a 13,000-seat arena every night - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 22:01:49
                    What if they had Kim Anderson, winning 7 games per year?... - zounami MU - 2/18 22:04:21
                         They're ranked in the Top 30 for attendance every year since - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 22:10:39
                              Is that what they reported? We are currently reporting - zounami MU - 2/18 22:15:20
                                   Not sure actually. nm - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 22:19:16
                                        nm (replied to the wrong post) - zounami MU - 2/18 22:22:31
     BFD. Donate 4M a year for four years and - UMR85 MU - 2/18 21:28:23
          This is a message board. You seem unfamiliar with how they - zounami MU - 2/18 21:29:17
     I don't see how any of the top 8 leave their - ERB KC - 2/18 21:16:47
          All we need to do is convince one of them, and I think more - zounami MU - 2/18 21:24:49
               That is a good point, you never know who's looking to get - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 21:50:55
                    Missouri would be an upgrade over many of those schools, so - zounami MU - 2/18 22:01:10
                         Will have to agree to disagree on that. - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 22:03:48
                              Why doesn't the Big East get as much TV coverage as the - zounami MU - 2/18 22:05:43
                                   True, that's been a legitimate criticism - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 22:13:37
                                        If it's such a great league, then why is it's coverage so - zounami MU - 2/18 22:16:30
                                             I hear you on that - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 22:20:06
                    The American is supposedly in talks with WSU - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 21:53:33
                         Bad move. WSU goes back to being worthless as soon as - zounami MU - 2/18 22:28:59
                              they were pretty good with Turgeon before Marshall - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 23:05:49
     I'd be thrilled if we got anyone on that list. (nm) - AndyTiger MU - 2/18 21:04:48
     The funny thing is - Hoosier Daddy1 IU - 2/18 20:56:12
          Cream will want too much, he's been to the top of the - MU-TULSA MU - 2/19 09:02:41
          New information must be considered. That's why stocks - zounami MU - 2/18 21:05:43
     RE: My top 16 list of HC candidates (updated)... - Chi-TownJ UI - 2/18 20:53:47
          Missouri and Illinois are comparable jobs, so you must think - zounami MU - 2/18 21:04:24
               RE: Missouri and Illinois are comparable jobs, so you must think - Chi-TownJ UI - 2/18 21:19:33
                    Are you talking about Northwestern and their proximity to - zounami MU - 2/18 21:23:21
                         RE: Are you talking about Northwestern and their proximity to - Chi-TownJ UI - 2/18 21:27:18
                              Hmmm. Missouri has a couple population centers as well, and - zounami MU - 2/18 21:28:17
                                   illinois is a better job, just not a way better job - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 21:31:33
                                        To head coaches, Missouri and Illinois are the same... - zounami MU - 2/18 21:33:40
                                             What BS to deal with? - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:43:28
                                                  We'll have to agree to disagree. If I were a head coach... - zounami MU - 2/18 21:57:09
                                                       Okay, Just wondered what the BS would be. (nm) - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:05:08
                                                            Unrealisitically high expectations and resulting - zounami MU - 2/18 22:09:34
                                                                 RE: Unrealisitically high expectations and resulting - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:20:01
                                             Both are a good coaching hire from being - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 21:38:59
                                                  Arkansas is NOT a better job. It's comparable to - zounami MU - 2/18 21:45:33
                                                       No way. I'd currently put MU above... - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:48:41
                                                            What do you mean "above"? As a program, MU is 4th... - zounami MU - 2/18 21:59:34
                                                                 Depends on what metrics for evaluating programs* - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:06:43
                                                                      Well, if you base it on number of NCAA tournament - zounami MU - 2/18 22:13:25
                                                                           That's all time? - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:22:45
                                                                                Yes, all-time. Historically, Missouri is a top 35 *program* - zounami MU - 2/18 22:27:30
                                                                                     Don't get how MU job is 25 but program 35 - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:32:10
                                                                                          Winning tradition, excellent recruiting base, only P5 school - zounami MU - 2/18 22:42:48
                                                                                               I think most of that is entirely subjective based on - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:50:17
                                                                                                    Easy to rack up wins for a D-1 coach. One of Missouri's - zounami MU - 2/18 23:01:08
                                                  I wouldn't say that about the BT. - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:45:29
                                                       I would rank Michigan way lower - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 21:49:34
                                                            Title game in 2013, Elite 8 in 2014 - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:56:05
                                                                 I'm not using current results in ranking the jobs - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 22:18:55
                                                                      Okay. - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 22:33:33
                                                                           Yea I was comparing jobs - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 23:02:12
                                                       It's unclear whether he's rankings teams, programs, or - zounami MU - 2/18 21:48:05
                                                            Good point(nm) - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:48:56
     RE: My top 16 list of HC candidates (updated)... - Tigerfem MU - 2/18 20:51:02
          Howland is an excellent fallback option... - zounami MU - 2/18 21:01:47
     I'm not buying Cronin. - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 20:38:15
          Would be a great hire for either Mizzou or Illinois I think - mizzoudiehard MU - 2/18 21:55:33
          Has never finished higher than 4th? His last 3 finishes were - zounami MU - 2/18 20:44:38
               wheeler doesn't like truth(nm) - TigerFan92 MU - 2/18 21:05:07
               and here are Cronin's Kenpom rankings the past 7 seasons... - zounami MU - 2/18 20:49:17
                    Doesn't move the needle for me considering the last - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 20:51:15
                         What difference does conference make for Kenpom ranking? (nm) - zounami MU - 2/18 20:53:41
                              Fewer games against Top 25 or Top 50 teams. - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 20:55:25
                                   Kenpom factors that in, SoS, etc... I guess it boils down to - zounami MU - 2/18 20:58:36
                                        What was their KenPOM SOS ratings last year? - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:04:32
                                        Rankings have them 18 as of today - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 21:00:52
                                             Look at who they've played in last 10 games - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:12:29
                                                  Two top 20 opponents in their last 10 games, one of which - zounami MU - 2/18 21:13:50
                                                       275, 20, 112, 111, 119, 275, 14, 264, 94, 224 - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:15:27
                                             NCAA tournament bound for a 7th straight season. That's - zounami MU - 2/18 21:02:44
                                                  I don't think Cronin is anything special. - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:13:54
                                                       Well, he's # 3 on my list. I'll be pumped if we hire him. (nm) - zounami MU - 2/18 21:14:54
                                                            Again, not saying he's bad, but that MU can do better(nm) - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:15:46
                                                  He would be way better than the last 2 coaches - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 21:05:25
                                                       That is a really low bar(nm) - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:14:25
                                                            Now that I agree with. (nm) - zounami MU - 2/18 21:15:08
                                                       TJ must consider the MVC conference to be a buzzsaw... - zounami MU - 2/18 21:09:55
                                                            I'm not alone in valuing Marshall. * - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:18:18
                                                                 A lot of people consider Mick Cronin a hot commodity... - zounami MU - 2/18 21:22:00
                                                            Marshall has dominated that conference - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 21:13:22
                                   KenPom adjusts for strength of schedule (nm) - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 20:58:08
               I don't consider the AAC a real conference. - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 20:48:24
                    His last year in the (old) Big East, he finished .500 and - zounami MU - 2/18 20:50:58
                         I'm not arguing he's awful, but he's not worthy of 3rd - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 20:52:28
                              if he adapts his offense to the new rules - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 20:56:48
                                   Is defense hard in the AAC? Meh(nm) - tjwheeler UI - 2/18 21:05:03
                                        WSU had the best defense in the nation last year - wu-tangtiger MU - 2/18 21:06:52




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