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since you mentioned it

Posted on: January 22, 2018 at 13:11:24 CT

90Tiger STL

Posts:

166698

Member For:

23.55 yrs

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User

M.O.B. Votes:

0

is "I believe to be fact" the same as "fact" and can be used interchangeably by you in all contexts?

"I believe it to be fact that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen.

and

"It is a fact that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen".

AND

"I believe it to be a fact that God exists"

and

"It is a fact that God exists"

All mean the same to you?

My assertion "I believe it to be fact" means nothing more than "I believe", and "it to be fact" is extraneous and has nothing to do with facts.

Please explain why this message is being reported.

REPLY

MESSAGE THREAD

I had a sweet recent college grad tell me over coffee - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:00:32

lol - pickle MU

- 1/22 14:04:54

Bwahaha... reason? At a church? ROFLMAO - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:20:01

Would you laugh if it was at a mosque, or - hokie VT - 1/22 13:37:12

I would (and do) laugh at all religion. - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:40:39

Your belief that 'there is no God' is itself a belief, of - JeffB MU

- 1/22 15:47:19

Here's the text of the Constitution... - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:56:42

Here's the text of the word of Almighty God, who owns the - MizzouTigerz MU

- 1/22 15:20:53

What an idiotic statement. Two incompatible concepts - hokie VT - 1/22 13:48:02

I feel sorry for you and those you call loved ones. - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:50:57

Explain how you have the right to be free from religion, - hokie VT - 1/22 13:56:41

Freedom FROM religion is literally freedom from government - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:58:21

That is ridiculous, not to mention stupid. The current - hokie VT - 1/22 14:07:27

Wow... really? - paleojas MU - 1/22 14:31:22

You read the books, but didn’t understand them. You say that - hokie VT - 1/22 14:39:35

I've thought about this a lot, as an academic - paleojas MU - 1/22 14:43:03

Academic. Teaching jr high? Hopefully no one with - hokie VT - 1/22 15:10:21

I teach at the university level. And run a research lab - paleojas MU - 1/22 15:20:22

God help us. nm - hokie VT - 1/22 15:22:59

why should the fed gvmt be funding research or human - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 14:50:03

That is a different discussion... - paleojas MU - 1/22 14:56:17

there are no good arguments in favor of it. it's not - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 15:10:41

Do you value your health? Or should we leave health research - paleojas MU - 1/22 15:18:10

No, freedom of religion is just that. If our founders had - DHighlander NWMSU - 1/22 13:47:38

Read the constitution, my friend - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:49:15

That does not say you have freedom FROM religion - DHighlander NWMSU - 1/22 14:22:43

Literally says we have freedom FROM state-sponsored religion - paleojas MU - 1/22 14:40:09

Good for you, Quit trying to coerce Christians to do things - Uncle Fester USMC - 1/22 13:45:50

I would LOVE it if you left non-Christians alone - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:52:58

Hey, you are up to 360 posts in 16.53 years...good job!(nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:42:26

Thanks. You trump idiots made me start posting again - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:45:46

Bye (nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:46:31

Struck a nerve, huh? - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:47:47

Sensitive, huh? - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:47:10

No, happy to run ya off(nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:47:33

How's that' going for ya? I'm still here - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:48:10

Oh goody...bring it on son (nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:52:04

Son... hahaha... - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:53:26

He'd laugh....his head off (nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:40:16

Faith and reason go hand in hand. Atheism, on the other - JeffB MU

- 1/22 13:33:43

lol (nm) - pickle MU

- 1/22 14:06:23

What a garbage article. Assume god exists, there is still - TigerMatt STL - 1/22 13:45:44

The article demonstrated what it set out to demonstrate, - JeffB MU

- 1/22 14:05:10

it's garbage - pickle MU

- 1/22 14:13:56

Wrong on all counts, pickle. (nm) - JeffB MU

- 1/22 14:22:04

no, Jeff. you really don't know anything about logic - pickle MU

- 1/22 14:54:41

Perhaps you think you know more than Professor Peter Kreeft, - JeffB MU

- 1/22 15:36:41

You couldn't tell it was garbage just from the URL? - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:46:51

The point is absurd. The article proved what it set out to - JeffB MU

- 1/22 14:11:13

Your straw man is also absurd here, my friend. - paleojas MU - 1/22 14:46:13

You replied to TigerMatt, saying that - JeffB MU

- 1/22 15:04:19

I prefer to think of myself as having thought through - paleojas MU - 1/22 15:10:34

If you have thought through religion to the point that you - JeffB MU

- 1/22 15:29:42

The laws of thermodynamics apply to systems in vacuums - paleojas MU - 1/22 17:00:43

The phrase you are searching for is 'closed system' not - JeffB MU

- 1/22 17:31:27

A vacuum is a closed system. Thanks for your input. - paleojas MU - 1/23 08:03:15

what if one is neither faithful nor an atheist, Jeff? One - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:39:41

'Why is faith a virtue and delusion derided?' - because - JeffB MU

- 1/22 13:58:36

circular horse$hit reasoning right out of the gate. - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 14:02:53

No, you asked a question & I answered it. The argument - JeffB MU

- 1/22 14:25:13

it's impossible (nm) - pickle MU

- 1/22 14:06:46

you think people can't be rational about some things - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:27:57

Indeed, I will listen to an Atheists political views - Uncle Fester USMC - 1/22 13:32:18

They can be - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:30:14

no it isn't, because he wasn't talking about religion with - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:31:07

ok... you changed my mind. - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:32:42

congratulations (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:33:27

Thank you for the reasoned input - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:21:28

You're welcome - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:24:55

Was it hard making that spreadsheet of handles all - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:28:15

Who do you think I am? - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:29:18

Well, a fool comes to mind, immediately (nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:30:43

Any specific one you have in mind? - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:31:08

Too many doubles and don't play dumb(nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:32:34

Only one dumb here is you, pal. - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:33:26

Struck a nerve, huh? (nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:33:58

Hey JP! Weird way to hit on dudes on the - Le Tigre - 1/22 13:36:10

There are more than a few gays on this board. Just FYI - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:37:44

You wish you did. But I'm calm. - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:35:14

Sensitive, huh? (nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:35:50

haha - paleojas MU - 1/22 13:37:03

Perhaps if a significant amount of that tax rebate went to - SparkyStalcup MU - 1/22 13:23:43

I think you have at least a couple of false premises in ther - JeffB MU

- 1/22 13:37:26

Where do the "tax funds" go? Mars? (nm) - ummmm MU - 1/22 13:35:23

nobody mentioned the economy. tax reductions keep - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:28:47

I never said they went back into the economy - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:27:58

Ironic and unlikely to be a true story to boot - JG MU

- 1/22 13:16:42

ah, the joy of OPM and what good "we" can do with it (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:07:57

Always much easier to do good with OPM - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:08:36

it would make me feel so good if the gvmt taxed the rich - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:12:31

Careful - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:14:18

The lib brain is both marvelous and depressing to behold.(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 1/22 13:05:02

I'm glad she's in church and hope she listens and that - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:04:19

Agree on being glad she is in church - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:07:39

since you mentioned it - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:11:24

It is why in matters of faith I work so hard to be clear - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:13:24

but by saying "I Believe......it to be fact" it makes - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:14:25

Because if I recall, that discussion was specific to facts - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:16:25

it means you believe it. adding "believe it is a fact" - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:18:55

So you should let it go(nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:21:15

why? (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:29:03

Because I am making you look like Schumer - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:30:02

Again, the only reason I said it that way is becasue - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:20:38

These kind of people have no relationship with - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:22:29

Stop using your faith like a weapon or a divisive tool of - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:30:17

You now understand why he believes as fact. You are - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:32:04

No, I already know he believes. to put it all on "faith" an - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:34:34

I'm trying to help you, if you want it. If not, then that's - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:35:31

why not focus on the post I just made. To state you - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:44:18

Sooo..offer still stands (nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 14:09:41

you're in no position to offer any such thing, check your - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 14:15:31

Such is the miracle of faith and the fruits of the Spirit - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:29:23

Not really. You were trained and taught, 4Tigs. (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:31:46

On that, we will agree to disagree - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:34:07

good post, 4tigs (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:44:56

If you seek to know, just ask(nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:33:34

I surely hope you aren't suggesting that I ask you. The - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:41:59

I agree(nm) - MUGuy2004 STL - 1/22 13:10:25

So do you think that you changed her mind? Her votes? (nm) - JeffB MU

- 1/22 13:04:10

I don't know, and that wasn't my aim - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:09:13

you should go have coffee with pickle and discuss the - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:13:36

He would make me pay for the coffee - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 1/22 13:17:09

Hopefully it would have some effect over time. It is - JeffB MU

- 1/22 13:11:17

or indoctrination from a church. that too is incredibly - 90Tiger MU - 1/22 13:52:22

Parents generally teach their children, including their - JeffB MU

- 1/22 14:35:03

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