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No, ideas and laws are concrete in the sense that they are

Posted on: July 25, 2017 at 14:27:52 CT
DHighlander NWMSU
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based upon a foundation of principles that guide their creation. That does not mean that they cannot be changed it simply means that there is a set process for doing so.

You can attempt to provide an argument for natural rights but if it ultimately comes down to them being our 'nature' without any supporting proof then it is mysticism which requires faith.

A logical proof requires a premise that can be agreed upon by all and then a set of valid logical arguments that take you from that premise to the conclusion.

Someone posted St Thomas Aquinas' proofs of God a couple weeks ago. I found all of them lacking because of the jumps he made in logic.

I have yet to see a proof of God that I have found valid nor have I seen one for natural rights. Both ultimately rely upon faith which, by definition, cannot be proven.
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Pickle's OPINION on morality - meatiger MU - 7/25 13:04:05
     His stance on Natural Rights is exactly the same. He claims - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 13:52:52
          Natural rights are inherent to the nature of humans. - ummmm MU - 7/25 13:54:40
               I still disagree - meatiger MU - 7/25 15:01:33
                    It's not a matter of agreement or disagreement - pickle MU - 7/25 15:08:38
                         How do you know?(nm) - meatiger MU - 7/25 15:13:29
                              Logic and reason and behavior - pickle MU - 7/25 15:16:38
                    Has that experiment been done? (nm) - ummmm MU - 7/25 15:02:55
               Unless you can prove that statement it is simply opinion. - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:02:43
                    We've been over this before. Natural rights are proven - ummmm MU - 7/25 14:06:12
                         You claim that proof. You have yet to offer it. It is - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:12:33
                              The proof of natural rights have been posted on this board - ummmm MU - 7/25 14:23:35
                    No, they exist. Some choose to ignore them, but that - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 14:04:44
                         interesting that you use the same argument as many believers - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:13:29
                              Not really. Belief in God requires believing in - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 14:28:20
                                   or is what you call a violation the actual inherent truth - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:36:26
                                        My natural righra would stop me from - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 14:47:52
                                             I am saying that there are cases where murder would be in my - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:58:26
                                                  If you are Christian and believe murder and theft - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 15:07:33
                                                  You mean as people became more enlightened? (nm) - ummmm MU - 7/25 15:01:35
                                                  No one is arguing it isnt intellect behind natural - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 15:00:32
     Part of pickle's open discussion he welcomes.... - Tigrrrr! MU - 7/25 13:15:48
          No one has the right to initiate force - pickle MU - 7/25 13:21:04
               Unless it is a fetus - Spanky KU - 7/25 13:25:49
                    That is up to interpretation. Some believe - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 13:35:51
                         It shouldn't be.... A human life begins at conception and - Spanky KU - 7/25 13:53:10
                              That is still debateable. A neurologist will say when - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 14:03:44
                                   Perhaps... but they will then struggle - Spanky KU - 7/25 14:10:43
                                        The heart is regulated the brain stem. Brain waves - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 14:23:16
                                             Human life begins at conception - Spanky KU - 7/25 14:32:53
                                                  The concept is personhood. Which is very debatable - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 14:51:21
                                                       The concept of personhood is a snivel excuse to allow - Spanky KU - 7/25 14:54:41
                                                            Do you believe it is murder to end life support - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 14:58:12
                                                                 It is not essentially abortion. - Spanky KU - 7/25 16:31:16
          hey... can you provide a link to Obama apologizing for - SwampTiger MU - 7/25 13:19:44
               Just showing up at Hiroshima was a terrible act of - Tigrrrr! MU - 7/25 14:46:06
                    Don't dodge. Answer the question and provide a link (nm) - pickle MU - 7/25 14:48:48
     He is right. As a human no one has the right to - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 13:07:50
          There is no factual definition of morality - meatiger MU - 7/25 13:10:02
               Not when it comes to natural rights, which is what - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 13:14:56
                    so he gets to decide the circumstances - meatiger MU - 7/25 13:17:44
                         You are correct that each person possesses their own - ummmm MU - 7/25 13:40:01
                         Can you please stop with the fallacies? - pickle MU - 7/25 13:22:28
                              Yes you are - meatiger MU - 7/25 13:25:24
                                   "he gets to decide the circumstances..." is a straw man - pickle MU - 7/25 13:29:12
                                        No, you are declaring an 'objective truth' and then arguing - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:00:17
                                             To be honest - pickle MU - 7/25 14:21:12
                                                  Yet you claim to want discussion - meatiger MU - 7/25 14:48:33
                                                       I do desire discussion - pickle MU - 7/25 14:51:20
                                                            becuase you only want discussion in your light - meatiger MU - 7/25 14:59:17
                                                                 That's not true at all. - pickle MU - 7/25 15:17:53
                                                  Since you are second only to JG in ignorance on this board I - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:40:28
                                             You won't accept the proof of natural rights because the - ummmm MU - 7/25 14:02:30
                                                  You were the one who believed the opposite of concrete was - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:08:33
                                                       Your use of "concrete" in that thread implied - ummmm MU - 7/25 14:17:18
                                                            He is conflating scientific proof with the abstract(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 14:52:48
                                                            No, ideas and laws are concrete in the sense that they are - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:27:52
                                                                 RE: No, ideas and laws are concrete in the sense that they are - ummmm MU - 7/25 14:34:34
                                                       It wasnt absent. It was ignored by some. Most - TigerMatt STL - 7/25 14:12:13
                                                            Then please list your 'natural rights' so we can identify - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/25 14:18:34
                                                                 RE: Then please list your 'natural rights' so we can identify - ummmm MU - 7/25 14:23:58
               There is objective truth and morality (nm) - pickle MU - 7/25 13:14:21
     Yeah, that wasn't opinion (nm) - pickle MU - 7/25 13:06:43




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