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You misunderstand the meaning of 'until'.

Posted on: November 1, 2016 at 17:31:07 CT
JeffB MU
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http://www.catholic.com/tracts/brethren-of-the-lord

Fundamentalist Arguments

Fundamentalists insist that "brethren of the Lord" must be interpreted in the strict sense. They most commonly make two arguments based on Matthew 1:25: "[A]nd he did not know her until (Greek: heos, also translated into English as "till") she brought forth her firstborn son." They first argue that the natural inference from "till" is that Joseph and Mary afterward lived together as husband and wife, in the usual sense, and had several children. Otherwise, why would Jesus be called "first-born"? Doesn’t that mean there must have been at least a "second-born," perhaps a "third-born," and so on? But they are using a narrow, modern meaning of "until," instead of the meaning it had when the Bible was written. In the Bible, it means only that some action did not happen up to a certain point; it does not imply that the action did happen later, which is the modern sense of the term. In fact, if the modern sense is forced on the Bible, some ridiculous meanings result.

Consider this line: "Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death" (2 Sam. 6:23). Are we to assume she had children after her death?

There is also the burial of Moses. The book of Deuteronomy says that no one knew the location of his grave "until this present day" (Deut. 34:6, Knox). But we know that no one has known since that day either.

The examples could be multiplied, but you get the idea—nothing can be proved from the use of the word "till" in Matthew 1:25. Recent translations give a better sense of the verse: "He had no relations with her at any time before she bore a son" (New American Bible); "He had not known her when she bore a son" (Knox).

Fundamentalists claim Jesus could not be Mary’s "first-born" unless there were other children that followed him. But this shows ignorance of the way the ancient Jews used the term. For them it meant the child that opened the womb (Ex. 13:2; Num. 3:12). Under the Mosaic Law, it was the "first-born" son that was to be sanctified (Ex. 34:20). Did this mean the parents had to wait until a second son was born before they could call their first the "first-born"? Hardly. The first male child of a marriage was termed the "first-born" even if he turned out to be the only child of the marriage.
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MESSAGE THREAD

     . - Iam4Mizzou MU - 11/1 18:02:26
     What does this have to do with grabbing pussy?(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 11/1 17:34:20
     And???? - Spanky KU - 11/1 17:33:30
     You misunderstand the meaning of 'until'. - JeffB MU - 11/1 17:31:07
          You misunderstand the meaning of firstborn. - MizzouTigerz MU - 11/1 17:33:46
               No. The Jews of the time referred to only children as - JeffB MU - 11/1 17:35:29
                    RE: No. The Jews of the time referred to only children as - MizzouTigerz MU - 11/1 17:49:51
                         That does not help your case. Genesis was written in Hebrew - JeffB MU - 11/1 18:44:42
                              Well, 300 something isn't the time of Christ, and St. Jerome - MizzouTigerz MU - 11/1 18:54:27
                                   You keep ignoring the text from 2nd Samuel... - JeffB MU - 11/1 20:58:58
                                        By your reading, the period of until only lasts for as long - MizzouTigerz MU - 11/1 21:23:28
                                             You are imposing 21st century english usage on a Greek - JeffB MU - 11/1 21:41:00
                                                  You are ignoring the divine nature of the Holy Bible, and - MizzouTigerz MU - 11/1 22:05:26
     Who ****ing cares? (nm) - pickle MU - 11/1 17:29:09
     Ever hear of James ? Ha ha ha. Jesus cam e from a family(nm) - raskolnikov MU - 11/1 17:27:31
     Hell will be hot - TigerFan92 MU - 11/1 17:24:11
          Not so fast...... - SparkyStalcup MU - 11/1 19:23:04
          The Roman Catholic version. - MizzouTigerz MU - 11/1 17:32:19
               That does not support your case: - JeffB MU - 11/1 17:38:05
               says till in the New King James as well, Identical. - MizzouTigerz MU - 11/1 17:35:30
                    Exactly - TigerFan92 MU - 11/1 17:43:12
                         The Greek word used includes cousins... - JeffB MU - 11/1 17:50:18
                              Son and firstborn are completely different in the Greek. I - MizzouTigerz MU - 11/1 18:24:07
                              Even so who cares as it doesn't matter in the least - TigerFan92 MU - 11/1 18:06:14
                         Chew on this too - TigerFan92 MU - 11/1 17:45:33
               till. (nm) - TigerFan92 MU - 11/1 17:33:17
          Of course he had a family - TigerFan92 MU - 11/1 17:32:06




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