Welcome Guest

Hey Ace!!! What law was not enforced?

Posted on: October 31, 2023 at 11:19:27 CT
Spanky KU
Posts:
141008
Member For:
20.20 yrs
Level:
User
M.O.B. Votes:
0
Not only did the Army tell Maine officials about the shooter, his family did too.

Every warning light was flashing red and Maine officials dithered.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/alleged-maine-gunman-displayed-glaring-mental-health-signals-threatening-behavior/ar-AA1j8QRZ?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=a18e3a4a9b0b4652badb2c6ff30e5da1&ei=22

Months ahead of his bloody rampage in Lewiston last week, suspected Maine gunman Robert Card had displayed glaring signals that his mental health was on a drastic decline – signals which his immediate family members knew about, were concerned by – and explicitly warned law enforcement that something needed to be done, according to documents obtained by ABC News via records requests.

As far back as January, Card’s mental health had already started to decline, his family said. By May it was getting even worse, and they were concerned for his well-being, and that he had access to firearms.

Despite some follow-up between local police and the Army Reserves regarding Card’s apparent paranoia, verbalized threats to shoot people and recurrent aggressive behavior in recent months, the documents do not indicate that Card was ever taken into protective custody or judged mentally incompetent by a medical professional which is required to trigger Maine’s yellow flag law.

On Oct. 25, Card’s repeated warning signs would prove fatal, when he would act on his threats in back-to-back massacres that claimed the lives of 18 and injured 13 more.

Family seeks help
On May 3, Card’s ex-wife and their teenage son went to the office of the Topsham School Resource Officer with concerns about Robert Card, according to an incident report from responding officer, Sagadahoc County Deputy Chad Carleton.

In all caps at the top of that report, a notice to patrol advises to “USE CAUTION IF RESPONDING” to Card’s residence due to his “PARANOID BEHAVIOR” and that he has “10-15 FIREARMS” in his house and/or truck.

“I learned from [Card’s son] that his father's mental health is in question. [Card’s son] told me that back around January, he noticed his father was starting to claim that people were saying things about him, while out in public,” Carleton wrote.

In public, Card’s son said his father would “start to claim that people around them were talking about him” even when nowhere nearby, and saying nothing in his direction.

Card’s son concluded his father was “likely hearing voices or starting to experience paranoia,” a “re-occurring theme” as Card claimed derogatory things were being said about him, “such as calling him a pedophile,” Carleton wrote.

That paranoia and anger would be turned towards his own family, [Card’s son] recounting that in April he had visited his father and Card “became very angry, accusing him of saying things about him behind his back,”

In the aftermath of the carnage that rocked rural Maine last week a portrait of who Robert Card was is now coming into fuller public view – though the documents show that worrisome warnings had already been communicated to law enforcement for months.

“Robert is currently an Army Reservist assigned to a training unit in Saco and has historically instructed soldier's on the use of hand grenades,” Carleton learns from Card’s son and ex-wife, according to the May incident report.

“Cara said she is very worried about [their son] spending time with Robert, considering what may be a deteriorating mental health condition,” Carleton wrote.

“Cara also told me that Robert had recently picked up 10-15 handguns/rifles that had previously been stored at his brother Ryan Card's house. [His son] said the majority of the guns are locked up in Robert's bedroom but added he may have one in his truck. [Card’s son] denied that Robert has done anything threatening with the guns, but is concerned that his father has them.”

Though the Card family was “aware of Robert's deteriorating mental health,” mother and son told investigators all mitigating efforts “have been in vain as Robert is in denial,” Officer Carleton recounted, and that “Robert has been historically resistant to admitting anything is wrong.”

Card’s brother Ryan had not realized he was “becoming this paranoid or hearing voices,” but that during episodes of “heavy drinking” he would make “angry rants about having to shoot someone,” Card’s ex-wife said, according to the May incident report.

Card’s brother was also “not aware Robert had picked up his guns and was concerned over this,” Carleton recounts from a conversation they had, the May incident report said.

According to the May incident report, Card’s brother told investigators he believed the paranoia and anger began when Card got hearing aids for the first time, in February, which Sagadahoc County Deputy Carleton says from his research could possibly be part of the constellation – but also could be a coincidence.

Card’s ex-wife and son “both don't want Robert to know they are bringing this information forward to law enforcement, for fear it will aggravate the situation,” Carleton’s May report said – that for the time being they were “simply going to try and avoid contact” and that “everyone agreed” the “best avenue of getting Robert some help” might be to contact Card’s command in the Army Reserves.

After speaking with the family, Deputy Carleton reached out to Card’s Army Reserves battalion in Saco – who in turn informed him “there has recently been considerable concern for Robert.”

“It sounded like they may be aware of his recent mental health decline,” Deputy Carleton wrote in the May incident report.

Carleton was told that Card “had been accusing other soldiers of calling him a sex offender which seems to coincide with some of the behavior [Card’s son] has witnessed,” he writes, but that the full extent of the issue may not have been known.

“First Sgt. Mote said he had no idea the problem is perhaps as bad as (Card’s son) is now describing. He thanked me for the notification because they are scheduled for an upcoming training exercise involving crew served weapons and grenades,” Carleton wrote in the May incident report.

Brewing paranoia sours to aggression
According to sheriff’s department incident reports Card’s concerns over being labeled a pedophile boiled over this summer.

In July, while on a beer run with fellow soldiers, Card accused them of calling him a pedophile and even questioning the size of his manhood, then got into a physical confrontation one soldier described as a “longtime friend,” shoving him, the letter from Card’s army reserve unit to the sheriff’s office says.

An email from a member of Card’s army reserve unit to the sheriff’s office says that incident led to Card being evaluated by an Army psychologist who determined he needed further treatment.

According to the email Card was taken to Four Winds Psychiatric Hospital in Katonah, NY for treatment and evaluation in mid-July and was released after 14 days.

Documents from the sheriff’s office show in early September the Army Reserve requested a health and welfare check for Card, after a reserve soldier expressed concern that Card was going to commit a mass shooting.

The soldier says he was in the car with Card when Card started talking about shooting up places and punched him.

“According to Hodgson, Card said he has guns and is going to shoot up the drill center at Saco and other places. He also said he was going to get ‘them.’ Since the commander and I are the ones who had him committed we are the ‘them.’ He also said I was the reason he can't buy guns anymore because of the commitment. Hodgson is concerned that Card is going to snap and commit a mass shooting,” the email from Card’s Army Reserve unit to the Sagadahoc County Sheriff’s office says.

The message goes on to say, ​​“I would rather err on the side of caution with regards to Card since he is a capable marksman and, if he should set his mind to carry out the threats made to Hodgson, he would be able to do it.”

Authorities issued an alert known as a “File 6,” warning law enforcement agencies across the state that Card was suffering from psychotic episodes and was “known to be armed and dangerous.”

Sagadahoc officers went to Card’s listed address, but the new residents told them he lived next door.

In a Sept. 15 police incident report on the welfare check, responding officer Aaron Skolfield notes it had come to the Army Reserves’ attention that “Card is having psychotic episodes where he is hearing voices that are insulting him calling him a pedophile.”

“Card is also making threats to shoot up the Saco [Army Reserve] facility,” noting his psych commitment over the summer “due to his altered mental state but has since been released.”

“It should be noted that Card is a firearms instructor … so utmost caution must be utilized,” he added.

The next day, Sagadahoc County deputies returned, saying Card could be heard moving around inside, but he refused to answer the door. Finding themselves in a “very disadvantageous position,” the deputies decided to back away according to the incident report filed after the visit.

The Army Reserve told them Card had behaved similarly in the past, according to an incident report, and “after he keeps to himself for a while he will come back out.”

Deputies say they were also told Card no longer had any weapons from the reserve unit and that arrangements were being made with Card’s brother to retrieve the personal weapons belonging to Card.

A sheriff’s office report says deputies confirmed Card’s brother was able to get his guns and that he and his father would make sure Card did not have access to any firearms.

Documents show deputies canceled the File 6 alert for Card on October 18th – one week before Card would ultimately open fire on men, women and children at two different locations.

In a written statement Sagadahoc County Sheriff Joel Merry says he believes his agency acted appropriately and followed procedures.

“My office will evaluate our policies and procedures for how we conduct wellness checks with the goal of making any improvements that are in the interest of public safety while balancing the rights of individuals. Our hearts are breaking for the families and friends of the people who were killed and injured.”

Edited by Spanky at 11:20:27 on 10/31/23
Report Message

Please explain why this message is being reported.

REPLY

Handle:
Password:
Subject:

MESSAGE THREAD

Hey Ace!!! What law was not enforced? - Spanky KU - 10/31 11:19:27
     What law was not enforced by Dems? - Ace A - 10/31 12:10:24
          Maine officials were given notice by the Army and family - Spanky KU - 10/31 12:16:40
               That isn't the law, Spanks. Your own cut and paste explains - Ace A - 10/31 12:17:19
                    It is the law. Maine law-enforcement were given notification - Spanky KU - 10/31 12:20:19
                         you cut and paste summarized the law and said the facts - Ace A - 10/31 12:27:50
                              The Sheriff and DA are Democrat. They were notified and - Spanky KU - 10/31 12:37:02
                                   the Maine law is triggered when a medical professional - cnk ATL - 10/31 12:45:38
                                        No... it is triggered when there is a complaint made to the - Spanky KU - 10/31 12:48:59
                                             that's not what the statute says(nm) - cnk ATL - 10/31 12:50:03
                                                  Wrong - Spanky KU - 10/31 12:54:58
                                                       but just above that it states... - cnk ATL - 10/31 13:00:47
                                                            The sheriff was given " information that gave rise to the - Spanky KU - 10/31 13:07:04
                                                                 The 3rd paragraph from your article is what prompted my - cnk ATL - 10/31 13:11:01
                                                                      He was taken into protective custody by the Army - Spanky KU - 10/31 13:14:01
                                                                           the Maine law doesn't apply to the Army, does it?(nm) - cnk ATL - 10/31 13:15:42
                                                                                The Sheriff was provided with credible information by the - Spanky KU - 10/31 13:18:33
                                                                                     I don't know if they failed to do their job or not because - cnk ATL - 10/31 13:27:17
                                                                                          and would you agree that the process starts when police - Spanky KU - 10/31 13:34:07
                                                                                               it doesn't really matter what I say the process should be - cnk ATL - 10/31 13:39:47
                                                                                                    It starts when the cops get involved.... - Spanky KU - 10/31 14:22:22
                                                                                                         that's not what the law says though - cnk ATL - 10/31 14:31:49
                                                                                                              What the cops admitted (#2) - Spanky KU - 10/31 15:09:30
                                                                                                              What the cops admitted (#1) - Spanky KU - 10/31 15:05:12
                                                                                                              What the law says: - Spanky KU - 10/31 15:04:30
                                                                                                                   when did Maine law enforcement have him in protective - cnk ATL - 10/31 15:32:47
                                                                                                                        They were supposed to have him in protective custody - Spanky KU - 10/31 15:45:53
                                                                                                    The law, as written, was an acquiescence to gun rights - Ace A - 10/31 13:45:40
                                                                                                         ok, but that doesn't answer the question of whether - cnk ATL - 10/31 13:51:21
                                                                                                              Also, the treatment facility was in New York, not Maine - Ace A - 10/31 14:45:32
                                                                                                              i don't have a dog in this fight, but if you step back from - 90Tiger STL - 10/31 14:30:32
                                                                                                                   I'm sure someone somewhere is looking to make - cnk ATL - 10/31 14:35:58
     No one will lose their government job over these failures - tigertix MU - 10/31 11:50:22
     The maine officials were right - El-ahrairah UGA - 10/31 11:49:04
          so in what case would a mentally compromised person - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/31 12:19:58
               "For supporting Trump!" - JG - MIZ45 MU - 10/31 12:36:11
               Never - El-ahrairah UGA - 10/31 12:26:34
                    there is no felon exemption either or age - tigerinhogtown STL - 10/31 12:34:03
          The Maine officials violated Maine law - Spanky KU - 10/31 11:52:49
               A law that violates rights - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:15:07
                    Enforce it or repeal it. Instead, Maine is considering - Spanky KU - 10/31 12:24:50
                         Of course they are - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:27:58
                              Despite the fact that enforcing the existing law would - Spanky KU - 10/31 14:41:55
     you two are good together (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:28:45
          How do you think Card's situation should have been handled?(nm) - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:30:41
               Shall not be infringed - JayHoaxH8r MU - 10/31 11:37:15
                    That does not answer the question. You expressed your - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:40:33
                         Nothing to the guns - JayHoaxH8r MU - 10/31 11:41:27
                              More transparency on drugs used, their efficacy and dangers - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:26:27
                                   I agree - JayHoaxH8r MU - 10/31 13:11:35
               Pretty sad his family did not do anything about it(nm) - meatiger MU - 10/31 11:34:54
                    They did do something about it. They notified the authoritie - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:39:32
                         prudent to see an exorcist? - kmawv8 MU - 10/31 11:43:46
                              Miss Cleo! - mizzouSECedes STL - 10/31 12:19:27
                              Fortune tellers are conduits for bringing in demons. (nm) - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:46:27
                                   lol (nm) - pickle MU - 10/31 13:17:22
                                   Exorcists are conduits for bringing in - kmawv8 MU - 10/31 12:23:11
                                        That is the logical fallacy of a faulty generalization... at - JeffB MU - 10/31 14:50:37
                                        Is there a vocational school for this? - JayHoaxH8r MU - 10/31 13:13:05
                    His family reported him to the cops (nm) - Spanky KU - 10/31 11:38:57
                         That is not doing anything(nm) - meatiger MU - 10/31 11:39:49
                              You are dumb and don’t understand the English language(nm) - Spanky KU - 10/31 11:53:42
                                   Family should have taken him to the hospital - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:00:13
                                        He was taken to the hospital and kept there for 14 days. - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:03:01
                                             Should be between doctor and family (nm) - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:12:45
                                                  It sounds like the mental health institution & especially - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:17:53
                                                       It is a family issue - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:21:59
                                                            Your paradigm would obviously involve government in our - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:41:26
                                                                 Would not invoke government at all - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:43:55
                                                                      Would you reject the anarchist's non-aggression principle - JeffB MU - 10/31 14:58:31
                                                            That might violate the anarchists' paradigm for society, no? - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:29:54
                                                                 I specifically said private institutions - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:31:28
                                                                 meat isn't an anarchist, bafoon - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:31:07
                                                                      I didn't claim that he was. Just pointing out that his - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:36:40
                                                                           maybe there isn't a solution, Jeff - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:40:28
                                                                                You would apply your paradigm of just letting things happen - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:43:34
                                                                                     you also have an overwhelming urge to create strawmen - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:46:14
                                                                                          No, you are running from a legitimate question. You cannot - JeffB MU - 10/31 15:15:50
                                                                                               it isn't reductio ad absurdum when the line of logic you are - ashtray UF - 10/31 15:22:24
                                                                                                    The question is a legitimate one, why do you refuse to answe - JeffB MU - 10/31 15:26:42
                                                                                                         without exception (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 15:30:21
                                                                                                              Ok, thanks. That would mean then that you would say - JeffB MU - 10/31 15:58:01
                                                                                                                   making threats is a use of force (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 15:59:13
                                                                                                                        What about someone who didn't threaten force, but talked - JeffB MU - 10/31 16:06:13
                                                                                          it's a learned reflex, I see it here all day long (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 10/31 13:52:36
                                                                           Since we are not believers in a single central planning - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:40:07
                                                                                It looks to me like you have things backwards here. - JeffB MU - 10/31 15:38:31
                              What should his family have done? (nm) - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:43:22
               hindsight is 20/20 - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:34:22
                    You are dumb - Spanky KU - 10/31 11:40:51
                         why would anyone believe the Army? (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:41:29
                              You are dumb - Spanky KU - 10/31 11:57:57
                                   you're the one who believes the Army, stunad (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:13:24
                                        The Sheriff admits he was notified by the Army, dumb@$$(nm) - Spanky KU - 10/31 12:40:08
                                             oh, another government flunkee - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:41:34
                                                  Democrat elected official(nm) - Spanky KU - 10/31 13:36:38
                                                       so it's even worse that's who you put your trust in (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 14:31:02
                    That still leaves the critical question... How should such - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:37:10
                         Until private businesses are willing to foot the bill for - hefeweizen MU - 10/31 11:43:11
                              No one should be restricted from buying, possessing, flaunti - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:45:50
                                   Businesses that do not allow customers to carry should - hefeweizen MU - 10/31 11:50:42
                                        Don't go to Mizzou games? (nm) - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:56:01
                                             It is still up to me whether to go. Im assuming the risk am - hefeweizen MU - 10/31 12:02:43
                                                  Perhaps. It does seem to me that college football games are - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:06:07
                                                       I would not consider large venues to be soft targets - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:24:54
                                                            I think someone could drive into a parking lot where - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:35:16
                                                                 so why hasn't that happened? - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:37:56
                                                                 Yes that could be done - meatiger MU - 10/31 12:37:17
                                                       I honestly dont remember if there are detectors at the gates - hefeweizen MU - 10/31 12:07:15
                         by who? (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:40:26
                              My question was open ended to you. You have the ability - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:47:57
                                   He prefers to be led. It’s obvious that identifying - Outsider MU - 10/31 12:02:43
                                        I'm not a central planner, and neither are you - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:17:19
                                             If you aren’t a central planner and don’t feel qualified - Outsider MU - 10/31 12:20:17
                                                  remember when you asked why I get personal? - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:22:17
                                                       Haha! I’m sorry ash. It’s just that when someone asks… - Outsider MU - 10/31 12:26:27
                                                            no, it would be reasonable if the asker of the question - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:27:56
                                                                 How many people do you want him to ask you about - Outsider MU - 10/31 12:31:02
                                                                      it's his quesiton. why would I determine that? - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:34:01
                                                                           Clearly no one respects your thoughts on anything - Outsider MU - 10/31 12:39:04
                                                                                lol.. I will re-lower my expectations for you - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:42:17
                                                                                     Haha! And I will spoon feed every question as to - Outsider MU - 10/31 12:45:10
                                   wait. it's my responsibility to construct your question for - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:49:04
                                        You don't seem to understand. I never asked you to construct - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:02:03
                                             I don't run the world and don't want to - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:16:36
                                                  So you have no solutions whatsoever. It is every man for - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:19:00
                                                       nice strawman, but you run with that (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 12:22:46
                                                            You haven't given an alternative. So far, all you have - JeffB MU - 10/31 16:14:46
                              That’s what he’s asking you. (nm) - Outsider MU - 10/31 11:41:12
                                   no it isn't (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:42:59
                                        He didn’t ask you how it should be handled? (nm) - Outsider MU - 10/31 11:43:58
                                             RE: He didn’t ask you how it should be dealt with? (nm) - Outsider MU - 10/31 11:44:46
                                             I said "by who" - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:44:38
                                                  That’s where you come in, it’s part of the question, unless - Outsider MU - 10/31 11:45:58
                                                       does everyone act as a collective in your world? - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:47:56
                                                            It’s called a non leading question… - Outsider MU - 10/31 11:51:10
                                                                 lol. holy shyt (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:52:10
                                                                      And still no answer, we get it. (nm) - Outsider MU - 10/31 11:52:49
     How many people would be arrested and detained - meatiger MU - 10/31 11:25:39
          How do you think Card's situation should have been handled? - JeffB MU - 10/31 11:34:09
               The family should have taken the guns and went to court to - tigertix MU - 10/31 11:52:29
                    The anarchists reject that methodology. I am interested in - JeffB MU - 10/31 12:21:18
          Given mental evaluations for exhibiting severe and violent - Spanky KU - 10/31 11:28:06
               so detained (which is basically the same as arrested) - meatiger MU - 10/31 11:30:21
                    For a mental evaluation that determines the likelihood of - Spanky KU - 10/31 11:38:11
               ^^^ CCP (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/31 11:30:13
     Speaking of mass murderers, anyone seen the manifesto… - Outsider MU - 10/31 11:22:48
     Law enforcement's failure should always mean - mizzouSECedes STL - 10/31 11:21:48
     Well we clearly need more laws - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/31 11:20:47




©2024 Fanboards L.L.C. — Our Privacy Policy   About Tigerboard