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How can a newborn infant break the law? This is

Posted on: October 30, 2018 at 08:27:38 CT
hokie VT
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In my opinion a fascinating subject. A subject about which reasonable people can disagree.

It would be nice if we could have a reasonable discussion of this without an invective flying around from the mouths and keyboards of petulant little adolescents, who must have their way.

And no, I don’t think that when pregnant Maria wattles across the border, squats and gives birth to a little Pedro, that Pedro should be a citizen. But in my opinion, he is.

I don’t want to be like the socialists and just change the laws with a wave of the mighty hand of a president. In my opinion, and it is just an opinion with which you may disagree, Pedro is a citizen. Change the law.

It says what it says.
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The 14th amendment grants birthright citizenship. It was not - hokie VT - 10/30 07:49:21
     No it doesn't - Kaw-djer - 10/30 13:08:11
     That was the last interpretation by SCOTUS - Spanky KU - 10/30 09:24:35
          good ol' legislation from the bench - FootballRefugee MU - 10/30 10:19:58
     I see Trump has gotten you all nice and scared before the - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 08:42:34
          Give that ridiculous fear thing a rest. You sound like - GA Tiger MU - 10/30 10:07:42
               Trump is appealing to a fear that Muslims have infiltrated - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 10:19:10
                    who "overblew" the caravan story? (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:31:03
                         The 24 hour media, Trump, far right wing conspiracy - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 10:51:08
                              So if you don't feel like you do about the caravan and - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:53:27
                                   That isn't what I said. - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 11:02:45
                                        then how should I have (correctly) interpreted your last - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 11:23:54
                                             RE: then how should I have (correctly) interpreted your last - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 11:58:28
                                                  yeah, that didn't address it at all, hence my follow up (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 13:02:03
          Yep, just like the caravan...the con man is doing his thing(nm) - playhard NWMSU - 10/30 09:54:59
          Guy is a moron, not concerned - however - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:21:26
          Fear is his favorite thing to run on - MrBlueSky MU - 10/30 08:50:03
               The Pubs will take away your Social Security!!! (nm) - Newcatbirdseat MU - 10/30 09:52:57
                    Both McConnell and Ryan seek to do that and to dismantle - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:54:29
                         Neither party is taking away any of that. (nm) - Newcatbirdseat MU - 10/30 10:02:36
                              The Poor can pay for the rich tax cuts - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 10:46:30
                         No, they don't. (nm) - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:55:41
                         FEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:55:35
               Haha. Fear is the basis of every campaign these days. - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:50:38
               what on Earth are Dems running on? (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:20:43
                    Dems are not an effective opposition party - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:23:24
                         What are the running on in terms of Healthcare, exactly? - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:28:12
                              Pubs seek to take away their healthcare - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:43:47
                                   what law was that rask? And KC, I told you this is - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:50:50
                                        Thing what you want - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:56:23
                              You're asking for a set of specific policy positions - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:32:26
                                   No, I'm asking in general, because in general, they - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:33:29
                                        I think you're also making the mistake of taking political - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:36:19
                                             Political advertisement are precisely what one is - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:36:49
                                                  SMH! - Mo Texan MU - 10/30 10:22:35
                                                       So...the message you and kc have is: Claire tells her rallie - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:31:55
                                                            Not sure about kc, but imo you believe what you think and - Mo Texan MU - 10/30 10:43:13
                                                                 I linked debate from the ratification of the 14th - is - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:46:32
                                                                      Nice try, the discussion was about political ads. Looks like - Mo Texan MU - 10/30 11:05:27
                                                                           here is my OP in this thread - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 11:35:30
                                                  No, they are not - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:46:22
                                                       Right. My assumption is 90 hasn't attended a Claire - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 10:03:53
                                                            You've yet to articulate her policy positions here. Note: - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:27:49
                                                                 I was reading an article this morning about a position of - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 10:34:37
                                                                      maybe she should put that in her ADS? (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:48:19
                                                                           Yeah she should. - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 10:52:10
                                                                                yeah, I didn't say it was one sided in this regard. I made - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:54:37
                                                                                     You said they aren't running on anything. - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 10:56:32
                                                       RE: No, they are not - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:48:01
                                                            You can't have it both ways(nm) - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:57:43
                                                  On TV? Are you nuts? - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:42:04
                                                       If a candidate doesn't want them run, can they stop them? - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:47:45
                                                            I'm a moderate. Trump signed one of my bills into law. - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:50:06
                    Orange man Hitler. Orange man bad(nm) - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/30 09:22:13
                         Offering to be a check on Orange Man is actually - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:24:15
                              Yes because Orange man bad - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/30 09:25:30
                                   Exactly(nm) - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:26:49
               Debt... Oops. (nm) - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:18:44
               lol I love the latching on to the wage growth stat - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/30 09:18:27
                    Socialists tell us that rich people are bad. And they - hokie VT - 10/30 09:23:01
               And the socialists would never, ever run a campaign based on - hokie VT - 10/30 08:58:44
          Whatever it takes to keep democrats from ruining the - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/30 08:47:12
               LOL, so it's required that we strictly adhere - Mormad MU - 10/30 09:25:02
               Yep. Gotta keep Rs in there to make sure there won't be a - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:18:18
                    "fear" lol. (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:21:04
                         Speaking of fear - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:25:19
                              Trump created a caravan? Trump sent MSNBC, CNN, and - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:29:04
                                   Are MSNBC, CNN, and "all the networks" - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:33:26
                                        You don’t believe that muzz terrorists are part of that - hokie VT - 10/30 09:42:48
                                             Who knows. My guess is we'll figure it out when like 300 - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:51:26
                                                  That would be a great outcome. Sending troops now - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:56:34
                                                       It's thousands of miles on foot in 100+ weather - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:59:37
                                                            Well, hope they are more afraid of this than of Pubs taking - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:32:57
                                        Why did these liberally minded folks decide to make this - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:36:07
                                             I think 24 hour news is bad for everyone. - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:40:46
                                                  You don't think it's dangerous, so has that really happened? - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:43:51
                                                       I think that a group of people who are most likely going to - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:49:29
                                                            so Trump making sure they are stopped is...."bad"? I would - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:54:06
                                                                 You'd take asylum in Mexico instead of attempting to get it - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:56:11
                                                                      Oh, lol, so you're desperately escaping racial or religious - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:34:48
                                                                           No because in Mexico you could be murdered by cartels - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 10:54:06
                                                                                Being murdered by cartels? 10,000 of them? lol. - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 11:40:22
                                                                                     Yes I would rather seek asylum in the US than Mexico - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 12:18:48
                                        No, but they sure are making it a HUGE STORY, which I - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:35:29
                    Orange man bad, Orange man want kill environment - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/30 09:19:12
               ends justify the means? (nm) - TigerJackSwartz MU - 10/30 08:56:56
                    No this isn't some made up thing, this is a real threat - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/30 09:00:18
                         Just like the one earlier this year right? What a tragedy - kcnorthside KC - 10/30 09:26:22
                         End justifying the means, another example of a lib who is - hokie VT - 10/30 09:16:09
     And it should be the FIRST response to illegal immigration. - GA Tiger MU - 10/30 08:30:46
          Nothing about the 14th that deals w/illegal immigration(nm) - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:24:59
          That clause was included - DC Jayhawk KU - 10/30 08:36:02
               It was included because of slavery. I love how - GA Tiger MU - 10/30 08:38:03
                    No..it was included because many people did not - MrBlueSky MU - 10/30 08:48:28
                         jesus, man you are dumb, see Elk v Wilkens - Spanky KU - 10/30 09:47:09
                         lol, you're really out of your league and over your skiis on - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:21:52
                         Are you from the south? Or just naturally ignorant? - GA Tiger MU - 10/30 09:02:36
                              In 1868 you mean? Yes - MrBlueSky MU - 10/30 09:03:45
                         So why was the phrase 'and subject to the jurisdiction - DHighlander NWMSU - 10/30 08:56:10
                              Dunno. Another debatable point which in my opinion, argues - hokie VT - 10/30 09:03:01
                                   It's not debatable (nm) - Kaw-djer - 10/30 13:13:15
                                   Problem is that does not come from a law. It is a - DHighlander NWMSU - 10/30 09:16:09
                              Meaning - MrBlueSky MU - 10/30 08:59:09
                                   read - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:29:21
                                   no, lol (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:22:24
                                   Except definitely not Indians. (nm) - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:01:24
                                        I tend to agree with that - DC Jayhawk KU - 10/30 09:42:48
                                             It's a classic case of having your cake and eating it too. - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:51:17
                                        Injuns were not granted citizenship until 1924, IIRC. Nm - hokie VT - 10/30 09:09:34
                                             How could that be? The 14th Amendment is so universal - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:13:10
                                                  Because Indians were deemed sovereign and subject to - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:20:53
                                                       Since you're all of the sudden a "plain meaning" guy when - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:23:15
                                                       exactly his point, good grief. people here who were subject - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:23:06
                                                            You're too ****ing dense to distinguish between - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:34:25
                                                                 It isn't about being "subject to US authority", hoss. Tour - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:40:12
                                                                      LOL, teetee...where do I say that? - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:56:46
                                                                           No, sport, I stated on my first response I don't support an - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:35:53
                                                                                You keep regurgitating some opinion piece as fact - tigerdb MU - 10/30 10:43:17
                                                                                     this should clarify: - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:51:02
                                                                                          See US vs Wong Kim Ark - tigerdb MU - 10/30 11:07:30
                                                                                               good grief, you're now introducing the racial part of - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 11:49:34
                                                                                                    LOL, what Teets? - tigerdb MU - 10/30 12:02:35
                                                                                     is THIS clear enough for you from the guy who wrote the - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:50:06
                                                                                     this isn't opinion - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:49:32
                                                                                     This isn't an opinion piece - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 10:48:44
                                                            These newfound Constitutionalists are struggling - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:24:08
                                                                 That's what happens when you use the constitution as - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:24:50
                                        Who had already agreed to several treaties with the American - MrBlueSky MU - 10/30 09:02:29
                                             The "point" is that Indians were subject to another gvmt - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:24:20
                                                  Illegal immigrants who live within the border of the USA - MrBlueSky MU - 10/30 09:28:33
                                                       READ - it isn't about being under the US' laws - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:30:20
                                                            This is where you're lost - and I don't know why you keep - tigerdb MU - 10/30 10:17:08
                                             Oh, so treaties can amend the Constitution ? (nm) - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:04:46
                              Except for possibly diplomats, every person on US soil - TigerJackSwartz MU - 10/30 08:58:52
                                   TJS - it's not about "being subject to the laws of". It's ab - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:26:57
                                        The 14th Amendment does not say that it bestows citizenship - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:46:56
                                   If you are here illegally and intentionally hiding from US - DHighlander NWMSU - 10/30 09:04:51
                    Nothing was mangled. - DC Jayhawk KU - 10/30 08:40:28
          it's not an illegal immigration issue. - tigerdb MU - 10/30 08:33:16
               It is absolutely an immigration issue. Because of chain - hokie VT - 10/30 08:37:25
                    What about little Melania, who is born in Florida today, - tigerdb MU - 10/30 08:44:23
                         Most would say that any here legally we 'subject to the - DHighlander NWMSU - 10/30 08:53:35
                         I have no idea what you are attempting to say. Nm - hokie VT - 10/30 08:48:44
                              Seriously? That phrase was added to the 14th amendment. - DHighlander NWMSU - 10/30 08:59:10
                              RE: I have no idea what you are attempting to say. Nm - tigerdb MU - 10/30 08:54:21
                                   Since you are incapable of expressing yourself in a manner - hokie VT - 10/30 09:07:16
                                        You are a dense one HG... - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:11:12
                                             the difference is the parents are still subjects of and - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:32:04
                                             Pathetic. It’s all about racism. That lame lie is all you - hokie VT - 10/30 09:18:28
                                                  LOL, no HG - you seem to focus on Maria squatting & popping - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:25:33
                                                       You’re the one making this about race. You people are - hokie VT - 10/30 09:30:58
                                                       RE: LOL, no HG - you seem to focus on Maria squatting & popping - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:30:56
                                                            What does this have to do with Hokey's racism? - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:38:42
                                                                 Did hokey say Germans, Poles, Swedes and other - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:41:18
                                                                      RE: Did hokey say Germans, Poles, Swedes and other - tigerdb MU - 10/30 10:06:37
                              And that's not surprising, as you are very stupid. (nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 10/30 08:50:41
               The hell it isn't. Why do you think the illegals, for - GA Tiger MU - 10/30 08:36:48
     This is not a debatable point - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 08:26:17
          false and your ignorance is on display again - this also - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 09:32:47
               That has never been true in practice - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:50:21
          Occasionally, you make posts that are so stupid, so partisan - hokie VT - 10/30 08:42:02
               14th Amendment is not under debate nor is it worthy of such - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:26:16
          Everything's debatable in america, dummy. Free speech. - RHAYWORTH MU - 10/30 08:41:43
          Pathetic why? Flesh it out for us, ras.(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 10/30 08:31:58
               Born American is Fundamental - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:27:01
          lol your feelings don't regulate citizenry in the US - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/30 08:30:42
          Why isn't it debateable. Just because that is - tman MU - 10/30 08:29:03
               We are BORN AMERICAN(nm) - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:27:39
               The raskol has decreed that it is not debatable. That’s what - hokie VT - 10/30 08:45:53
                    Sorry, I guess those afraid of scary brown people can debate - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 09:52:12
               Congress passed legislation, the SCOTUS has ruled on it... - tigerdb MU - 10/30 08:31:34
                    You can debate WHY WE NEED IT. - GA Tiger MU - 10/30 08:32:49
                         You are confusing thought with feeling - mu7176grad MU - 10/30 08:34:30
                              They react as pre-programmed robots. So predictable.(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 10/30 08:35:46
     RE: The 14th amendment grants birthright citizenship. It was not - slamduncan KC - 10/30 08:15:26
          The Right has been SO manipulated on this issue - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 08:28:59
          How can a newborn infant break the law? This is - hokie VT - 10/30 08:27:38
               RE: How can a newborn infant break the law? This is - slamduncan KC - 10/30 08:41:10
                    RE: How can a newborn infant break the law? This is - slamduncan KC - 10/30 08:42:47
          The unborn child didn't break the law to get here... - tigerdb MU - 10/30 08:23:46
               There is no such thing as an unborn child - raskolnikov MU - 10/30 08:31:54
     "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is a phrase you - 90Tiger MU - 10/30 07:50:27
          You're saying that the US government & state governments - tigerdb MU - 10/30 08:25:03
               Oh they very much do today. But the intention of that - ummmm MU - 10/30 08:36:08
                    Actions sometimes have unintended consequences - tigerdb MU - 10/30 08:41:15
                         Oh, I'm sure you do think its pretty clear. - ummmm MU - 10/30 08:45:57
                              I realize that you're not the first person to go down this - tigerdb MU - 10/30 08:47:36
                                   I'm talking about original intent. - ummmm MU - 10/30 08:50:44
                                        The original intent was to extend citizenship to anyone - MrBlueSky MU - 10/30 08:52:23
                                             Those born in the US and not subject to the jurisdiction - ummmm MU - 10/30 08:54:10
                                                  They didn't say "not subject to a foreign power"... - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:07:46
                                                       I'm relying on the records of the debate. I'm not making - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:12:20
                                                            There is no ambiguity...you're trying to create ambiguity - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:15:09
                                                                 RE: There is no ambiguity...you're trying to create ambiguity - ummmm MU - 10/30 09:15:45
                                                                      RE: There is no ambiguity...you're trying to create ambiguity - tigerdb MU - 10/30 09:21:21
               He doesn't know what he's talking about - MrBlueSky MU - 10/30 08:26:15
          Not sure why you had to get pizzy about it. But I don’t - hokie VT - 10/30 07:52:26
               this would be a good place for you to start - blake1771 KC - 10/30 07:54:42
                    Thanks, I am familiar with those arguments, those arguments - hokie VT - 10/30 08:06:26
               lol hokie (nm) - SwampTiger MU - 10/30 07:53:47




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