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putting a woman in prison or fining her or other for

Posted on: December 20, 2016 at 12:40:05 CT
90Tiger STL
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terminating a pregnancy is force.

threatening a woman with the above if she doesn't carry her child to term is force.

I know you think you're being clever or cute here, but if you want abortion to be illegal, I will assume you have a penalty in mind.

what penalty do you want for abortion? Same as murder?

legal penalties are the very definition of force, Matt.

want to rethink your answers?
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If there is no victim, is there a crime? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 10:51:34
     if i try to shoot you in the head, but miss - TigerwTLP MU - 12/20 12:37:28
          Yes - pickle MU - 12/20 12:41:59
               What if I intentionally missed you? - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:57:44
                    Still a crime (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 13:22:09
                         How are you a victim? Your life was never in danger. - Spanky KU - 12/20 13:28:32
                              My right to life was threatened - pickle MU - 12/20 13:33:05
                                   i would feel as if my life is in danger driving 70mph next - TigerwTLP MU - 12/20 13:56:16
                                        Yes and no - pickle MU - 12/20 14:14:07
                                   So.. the individual determines if something is a crime?(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 13:36:45
                                        The individual determines if his life is threatened - pickle MU - 12/20 13:38:32
                                             That is just dumb... If Fester glares at you, is your life - Spanky KU - 12/20 13:41:37
                                                  Of course not (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 14:05:30
                                                       Fester's glare is as dangerous to you as me shooting a gun - Spanky KU - 12/20 15:39:26
                                        He needs a 'safe zone' to be OK..... - Spanky KU - 12/20 13:37:44
                                   How? It was not pointed at you.. it was pointed away from - Spanky KU - 12/20 13:35:51
               So attempted harm - meatiger MU - 12/20 12:48:22
               If TigerwTLP is firing a gun up in the air and a round lands - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:45:34
                    No (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 13:21:27
                    yes - FootballRefugee MU - 12/20 12:50:02
                    this is probably what i should've asked to begin with (nm) - TigerwTLP MU - 12/20 12:46:53
     What "crime" are you eluding to here? (nm) - MIZ45 MU - 12/20 12:27:45
     Society has made decisions to outlaw - meatiger MU - 12/20 12:15:01
          Pickle is black and white on the issue and does not - jmlppx MU - 12/20 12:28:13
               you aren't able to articulate pickle's position on this and - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:35:17
               Probability is irrelevant (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 12:32:24
               Black and white are easy - meatiger MU - 12/20 12:30:35
                    there's nothing black and white about pickle's position and - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:36:16
                         His position it toally black and white - meatiger MU - 12/20 12:37:58
                              you don't have a position. you have a "case by case - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:41:31
          He's not asking you to tell him what current laws are. He's - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:15:36
               I generally agree with the path - meatiger MU - 12/20 12:19:17
                    That's not true - pickle MU - 12/20 12:31:01
                    he did no such thing here. you simply didn't answer his - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:22:32
                         There is still a crime without a victim. - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:29:34
                              There is no crime without a victim (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 12:34:44
                                   There is. You just don't want there to be. - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:37:35
                                        There isn't (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 13:33:56
                                             You are wrong. Look up the word 'crime' and - Spanky KU - 12/20 13:37:09
                                                  Your appeal to authority - pickle MU - 12/20 15:18:02
                                                       Your abuse of the English language is noted. - Spanky KU - 12/20 15:40:14
                         Yet there are rules everywhere - meatiger MU - 12/20 12:27:15
                              Non sequitur (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 12:34:21
                                   Of course - meatiger MU - 12/20 12:35:30
                                        Heaven forbid you can stay on topic - pickle MU - 12/20 12:40:23
                                        your post had nothing to do with the topic, meatiger (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:37:46
                                             It is very relevant - meatiger MU - 12/20 12:40:52
                                                  meatiger - what is your basis, using statistics, for determi - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:42:17
                                                       Since I am not an expert in the art, I don't know for sure - meatiger MU - 12/20 12:47:08
                                                            How can you form a law to prevent any of those things if - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:50:00
                                                                 So I need to be an expert in the art - meatiger MU - 12/20 13:08:21
                                                                      how many more accidents? how much more property damage? - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 13:15:35
                                                                           I am of the belief - meatiger MU - 12/20 13:20:57
                                                                                oh, well that's a nice belief and even if true, you pay - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 16:35:40
     what about abortion?(nm) - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:11:29
          Turn abortion over for a minute and ask this: - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:18:36
               she already made her choice(nm) - tigerinhogtown STL - 12/20 12:44:38
               was it immoral to recklessly put yourself... - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:22:54
                    No, it isn't moral for a woman to get pregnant "by choice or - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:26:08
                         no, i'm good with this one(nm) - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:26:47
                              well, given that it was a red herring, i'm surprised (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:37:18
                                   only to you... - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:40:46
                                        I told you I don't find it moral after you asked and then - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:42:51
                                             see my response below(nm) - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:45:35
               Wrong. Not offering the option of abortion is not - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:21:42
                    mandating a woman to carry and birth a child OR ELSE - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:24:50
                         you are ending a heartbeat... - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:26:12
                              Nobody is arguing for abortion, nobody argued that - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:28:56
                                   Denial of service is not force.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:29:38
                                        If the denial is voluntary, it's not force - pickle MU - 12/20 14:15:52
                                        if a woman chooses to perform her own abortion or - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:44:23
                                             the performer should go to jail(nm) - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:48:10
                                                  for how long? why not the mother, she aided and - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:51:15
                                             There are laws against performing medical procedures - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:47:35
                                                  but you want the FDA to call it an unrecognized medical pro - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:52:09
                         Wrong. Not offering an option is not the same as force.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:25:31
                              i read that the first time you typed it, Matt, and it's stil - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:26:38
                                   Incorrect. Rape is force, acting upon someone is force. - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:27:57
                                        putting a woman in prison or fining her or other for - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:40:05
                                             Who said anything about a penalty? Could be as simple - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:43:39
                                                  wait, now we have another discussion altogether. so - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:46:02
                                                       It is an interesting topic. (nm) - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:51:57
                                             i'm not advocating the woman goes to jail... - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:41:59
                                                  Ok - so you believe anyone performing an abortion - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:48:17
                                                       ok, you talked me into it... - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 14:04:27
          Same answer as when you asked earlier - pickle MU - 12/20 12:14:09
               nothing more natural than the conception to birth... - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:17:39
                    not really a scale, but ok? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 13:35:24
                    Unless it isn't. Women who become pregnant who are - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:21:22
                         i didn't ask you to do anything... - escalade NWMSU - 12/20 12:24:19
                              that isn't even part of the topic or the discussion, but - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 13:08:15
                         Unless they were raped, there is no force. They acted of - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:23:03
     Can't answer as that question is too vague.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 11:57:04
          Ok (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:59:06
               If you are asking if there can be crime, but no victim, then - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:09:26
                    RE: If you are asking if there can be crime, but no victim, then - pickle MU - 12/20 12:13:34
                         If I walk into a store and shoplift, is it not a crime? - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:18:01
                              Yes, it's a crime - pickle MU - 12/20 12:36:41
                                   Does a corporation have property rights?(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:37:47
                                        No, the owners do (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 13:30:04
                                        people do and people are corporations, corporations are - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:54:03
                                             Corporations are businesses chartered by the state. Pickle - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 13:05:23
                                                  That's ridiculous. Of course I recognize the State exists - pickle MU - 12/20 13:31:03
                         So if I tap into the cable company owned line running to - TigerMatt STL - 12/20 12:16:15
                              It's a crime because you are infringing - pickle MU - 12/20 12:35:53
     Crimes are committed against people - El-ahrairah KC - 12/20 11:41:33
          RE: Crimes are committed against people - Alferd Packer MU - 12/20 12:16:26
               there is a victim, the owners of the playground who chipped - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:54:56
          Society is not made up of people? - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:43:35
               yes, but society is not a person. it's a tough concept for - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:55:33
               RE: Society is not made up of people? - El-ahrairah KC - 12/20 11:48:05
                    I answered that post - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:51:47
                         by repeating what he said - pickle MU - 12/20 11:54:19
                              Irony. (nm) - JeffB MU - 12/20 13:37:41
                              No.. it isn't. - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:04:04
          Society is imaginary? (nm) - JeffB MU - 12/20 11:42:42
               crimes against society - El-ahrairah KC - 12/20 11:47:38
                    Speeding is a crime against society. Driving drunk is a - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:49:51
                         Crime ONLY exists if there is a victim - pickle MU - 12/20 11:58:38
                              Who or what gave you the authority to define what is and - JeffB MU - 12/20 13:05:39
                              That is incorrect. Learn the meaning of words, man. - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:07:20
                                   How can there be a crime if there is no victim? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 12:18:57
                                        How can there be a society if there are no people who make - JeffB MU - 12/20 13:56:32
                                        Because there is no requirement for a victim in a crime. - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:26:05
                                             why is that, spanky? why is something a crime if there is n - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 12:57:05
                                                  Because words have meanings... I stated below that pickle - Spanky KU - 12/20 13:00:54
                                                       the meanings of words is constantly changing spanky and is - 90Tiger MU - 12/20 13:19:18
                                                            No they aren't.... Give me an example of the evolution of - Spanky KU - 12/20 13:30:28
                                             How can there be a crime if there is no victim? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 12:37:07
                         no they aren't crimes - El-ahrairah KC - 12/20 11:57:13
                              Do you need the statute to prove to you that they are? - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:08:01
                              they are absolutely crimes, if you commit them you - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 12/20 12:05:21
                    Who or what gave you the authority to define what is and - JeffB MU - 12/20 11:49:49
     Yes... - Salty Dog MU - 12/20 11:23:06
     I had $18K dollars taken from my savings account - tman KC - 12/20 11:21:55
          Did the bank take it or replace it after someone else took - Alferd Packer MU - 12/20 12:11:35
               Someone else. But their is not victim. That implies harm - tman KC - 12/20 12:32:47
                    Do try to make sense (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 13:36:44
               If someone takes $20 from you and replaces it before - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:15:18
     a lot of malum prohibitum crimes(nm) - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 12/20 11:08:12
          Example? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:12:06
               Spanky has already given you a couple(nm) - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 12/20 11:16:16
                    He hasn't even given one example (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:21:05
                         I know you're being intentionally difficult - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 12/20 11:25:51
                         Read man... - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:21:42
                    He can't read my posts. They seem to blow his argument - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:19:26
          The distinction between malum prohibitum and malum per se - ummmm MU - 12/20 11:12:01
               Why? Most crimes are malum per se - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:18:32
                    Because the concept implies that there are some things - ummmm MU - 12/20 11:25:01
                         Murder, Rape, Theft are malum per se - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:35:30
                              Prohibited, yes. But crimes, no. - ummmm MU - 12/20 11:52:51
                                   You are wrong. Look up the word 'crime' and - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:08:48
                                        This is a non-sequitur and an appeal to authority. - ummmm MU - 12/20 13:29:11
                                             No It is just English. You should learn it sometime - Spanky KU - 12/20 16:05:42
                                   it's a crime if a society says it's a crime(nm) - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 12/20 12:00:00
                                        RE: it's a crime if a society says it's a crime(nm) - ummmm MU - 12/20 12:07:39
                                             correct at one time that was a crime(nm) - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 12/20 12:10:16
                                                  and that is problematic (nm) - ummmm MU - 12/20 13:31:30
                         I don't think many doubt the existence of certain - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 12/20 11:27:26
                              Right. (nm) - ummmm MU - 12/20 11:28:52
               ok(nm) - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 12/20 11:17:06
     Yes. - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:01:51
          Example? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:03:46
               Mizzou basketball(nm) - jmlppx MU - 12/20 11:11:28
               Driving with a BAC of .01 on the wrong side of the road. - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:11:24
                    Who are the victims? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:21:39
                         What was your question, dumb@ss? - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:23:03
                              If there is no victim - pickle MU - 12/20 11:32:40
                                   you'd have to define victim as was stated earlier. using the - blake1771 KC - 12/20 12:25:14
                                        I already have. Here: - pickle MU - 12/20 15:36:31
                                   That was not your question, dip stick. - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:38:31
                                        No, I've asked you the question I'd like you to answer - pickle MU - 12/20 11:42:56
                                             How can you get any pudding if you don't eat your meat? - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:46:45
                                                  How can there be a crime if there is no victim? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:50:01
                                                       Because words have meaning. You want to redefine the word - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:52:31
                                                            How can something be a crime if there is no victim? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:54:55
                                                                 Because words have meaning. You want to redefine the word - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:09:37
                                        Exactly(nm) - jmlppx MU - 12/20 11:40:52
                              Lol this is funny. (nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 12/20 11:26:22
               exposing yourself to a blind person(nm) - Butcher of Bakersfield STL - 12/20 11:09:09
                    8 years olds, dude (nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 12/20 11:19:27
               Not wearing your Star of David patch (nm) - ummmm MU - 12/20 11:06:57
               Possession of drugs (nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 12/20 11:06:30
               DUI(nm) - meatiger MU - 12/20 11:05:58
                    Who is the victim? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:11:05
                         I never claimed a crime needed a victim(nm) - meatiger MU - 12/20 11:12:07
                              Were you anticipating Spanky's response? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:20:28
                                   No..I was answering your question - meatiger MU - 12/20 11:27:23
                                        That wasn't my question (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:30:05
                                             yes it was - meatiger MU - 12/20 11:32:17
                                                  No, it wasn't - pickle MU - 12/20 11:37:20
                                                       That wasn't your question, dumb@ss. - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:41:36
                                                       Becasue there is a law against something - meatiger MU - 12/20 11:39:47
                                                            That's begging the question - pickle MU - 12/20 11:45:05
                                                                 You want to redefine the word 'crime' - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:47:59
                                                                      How can there be crime if there is no victim? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:50:32
                                                                           RE: How can there be crime if there is no victim? (nm) - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:52:57
                                                                                How can something be a crime if there is no victim? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 11:55:28
                                                                                     Because words have meaning. You want to redefine the word - Spanky KU - 12/20 12:09:51
                                                                                          How can there be a crime if there is no victim? (nm) - pickle MU - 12/20 13:37:11
                                                                                               Because there's no requirement for a victim to be a crime. - Spanky KU - 12/20 18:59:34
                                                  Pickle is stuck in a "do loop." (nm) - jmlppx MU - 12/20 11:34:02
                                   What question did you ask in your OP? - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:24:07
                              He forgot that he asked for examples of crimes without - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:12:52
                         You asked for examples where there is no victim, dumb@ss - Spanky KU - 12/20 11:12:07
               Not moving to the back of the bus. (nm) - ummmm MU - 12/20 11:05:32
                    Pickle was probably on the short bus anyways(nm) - meatiger MU - 12/20 11:06:19
     If a tree falls, but no one is there to hear it, does it - MUTGR MU - 12/20 10:58:23
     If there is no rain, are there clouds?(nm) - jmlppx MU - 12/20 10:56:13
     wrong board.(nm) - SuperTone MU - 12/20 10:56:08
     Wrong board (nm) - Fourth and Long MU - 12/20 10:55:11




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