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Posted on: November 12, 2022 at 22:52:48 CT
4TigersinMichigan MU
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We pass laws so that those who may wish to do those things either pause or face punishment if they go against our notion of right and wrong.
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Please read this post from 4Tigs and consider it. - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:44:50
     He's an idiot. (nm) - ashtray UF - 11/13 07:02:32
     That is incorrect - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 21:54:11
          Wrong place - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 21:59:54
               LMAO. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:01:46
          Do you have an example of the latter? (nm) - ummmm MU - 11/12 21:57:03
               Their views on natural law - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:01:17
                    that's your example of llbertarians enforcing their views on - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:03:50
                         Is the purpose of all laws to inflict the will - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:10:44
                              not at all(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:12:16
                                   So what is the purpose of laws(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:15:09
                                        to prevent others (including gvmt) from - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:18:25
                                        they should be to protect people - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:17:06
                                             You are free to think that - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:21:50
                                                  I am not forcing anyone to live by my notion - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:23:00
                                                       So you support no laws, even those that - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:25:25
                                                            Do you believe murder is ever justified? Do you believe - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:26:34
                                                                 No, but that is why I have no issue saying I support laws - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:32:08
                                                                      Negative Rights do not inflict anything on anyone. Why are - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:34:26
                                                                           And that is my point - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:42:11
                                                                                4Tigs - if you think laws should protect murder, theft and k - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:44:56
                                                                                     I think there should be laws against all those things - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:46:41
                                                                                          A libertarian would protect your right to worship Christ. Y - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:50:06
                                                                                               Name one law you support that is not an attempt - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:51:24
                                                                                                    right to life, property (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:56:08
                                                                                                    I claim a right not to be murdered. I am not murdered - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:53:14
                                                                                                    law against murder(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:52:40
                                                                                                         So should someone who sees no issue with - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:53:54
                                                                                                              someone who wishes to kill me or steal from me is - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:56:53
                                                                                                              yes - you know a lot of these people or disagree with this? - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:55:40
                                                                                                              They took action against the law. The law did not force - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:55:08
                                                                                                              who would "see no issue" with murder?(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:54:31
                                                                                          Great start, other than "inflicting your will". Is it your h - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:49:05
                                                                                               Of course - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:52:48
                                                                                                    Right - so rather than letting a majority of current people - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:54:30
                                                                                                         Because the very people who want laws to support these thing - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:57:27
                                                                                                              "tradition"? how about the entirety of human history (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 23:00:48
                                                                                                              no 4Tigs, nobody has an issue with your support of murder - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 23:00:19
                                                                                                              A negative law does not inflict will on others! It forces - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:58:25
                                                                                          And if someone says that Christianiry causes harm and - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:48:14
                                                                                               No, I think it's wrong and I would fight it - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:50:25
                                                                                                    "inflict my will of what is right"? - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:52:54
                                                                                                    A law I support is Thou Shalt Not Murder.(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:51:21
                                                                                                         Should a person who sees no issue with murder - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:54:56
                                                                                                              A law against murder forces no one to take action. It - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:56:34
                                                                                                                   We are getting ready to land - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:59:41
                                                                      4Tigs, you're supporting laws that infringe upon others. - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:33:58
                                                                           And you are free to have that opinion - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:40:28
                                                                                it's not an opinion. name a law you support that I wouldn't - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:45:34
                                                                                     I want to know a law you support - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:48:35
                                                                                          RE: I want to know a law you support - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:57:29
                                                                                          It has been talked about many times - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:50:40
                                                                                Just admit you wish to force your will upon others even if - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:41:11
                                                                                     As do you if you believe in punishing - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:43:12
                                                                                          these are rights YOU see as individual rights, 4Tigs. We jus - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:46:52
                                                                                          No. Here is a negative law. Do not murder. - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:45:50
                                                                                               Nothing, but I get punished if I do - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:47:24
                                                                                                    we've established this. Now discuss the laws you support - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:58:06
                                                                                                    Because you took action, when no one forced you to against - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:49:18
                                                       He's literally taking the position that libertarians are bad - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:25:15
                                                            At this point I think you could get him to defend Satan(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:28:20
                                                                 Look, I agree we should have those laws - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:33:47
                                                                      a law against murder is no infliction of will(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:36:37
                                                                           So one who murders will not be punished?(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:37:21
                                                                                Yes. They took positive action to violate the negative - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:39:06
                                                                                     Why should they be punished? - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:44:06
                                                                                          who doesn't agree with these rights??????? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:58:34
                                                                                          why are you focusing on this instead of the laws you support - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:50:54
                                                                                          It isn't my notion of rights. It is universal.(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:47:02
                                                                                what? - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:38:50
                                                                                you misread his post; he means a law against murder forces - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:38:20
                                                                      4Tigs, the difference is you support laws that infringe upon - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:34:36
                                                                           And this is the crux 90 - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:36:43
                                                                                it isn't my belief, it's a fact. my position requires nothin - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:39:42
                                                                                     What is a fact? - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:45:08
                                                                                          Fact: natural law requires nothing of anyone other than - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:48:07
                                                                                OMG. A law against murder is not forcing anyone to - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:38:08
                                                                                     he's untangling 40+ years here (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:40:10
                    It's not a belief. There's no imposition. - ummmm MU - 11/12 22:03:03
                         Removing laws that restrict individual rights is somehow - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:06:05
                              My question is what laws do they support and why? - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:09:21
                                   Laws supporting Negative rights do not inflict one's - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:11:59
                                        He doesn't understand negative and positive rights (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:13:14
                                        Define negative rights(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:13:01
                                             RE: Define negative rights(nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:16:17
                                                  Ok. Keeping your property - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:18:30
                                                       natural rights supports property rights, not "survival - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:23:28
                                                            Correct. That is my point. - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:29:25
                                                                 these laws don't require anyone to do anything, 4Tigs. you - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:35:36
                                                                      They require people to share your view of - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:38:20
                                                                           4Tigs, they don't require my view be shared at all. they sim - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:41:44
                                                                                How dare you force those views on someone(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:42:34
                                                                           Yes.. you would be taking a positive action against the - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:40:17
                                                                 Laws that protect an individual's property are defense of - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:30:30
                                                                      Should there be laws against doing that?(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:34:48
                                                                           a law stating all children will receive education level X - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:37:32
                                                                                If I don't believe stealing is wrong, so I get punished - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:39:50
                                                                                     The difference is what laws libertarians DON'T support, not - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:44:11
                                                                                     Have you ever found a person who believes stealing is not - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:40:59
                                                                                          4Tigs has had a worse night than Pubs last Tuesday (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:59:21
                                                                           sigh - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:36:10
                                                                           Yes. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:35:55
                                                       Rights has nothing to do with survival of the fittest(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:20:56
                                                       You're hopelessly lost. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:20:17
                                                            Because you cannot answer the question of - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:23:18
                                                                 RE: Because you cannot answer the question of - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:25:33
                                                                 The negative rights holder isn't doing anything. Natural - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:25:28
                                                            that was truly pathetic (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:20:39
                                                       the group wanting to steal the possessions of others would - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:19:57
                                                            Who thought we could get 4tigs siding with thieves(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:21:44
                                                                 I think I could get him to side with the devil logically, gi - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:22:39
                                                                      If you demand a law against murder - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:23:34
                                   what will is being inflicted on others with libertarianism - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:10:23
                              4Tigs won't admit this, but he just wants gvmt to enforce - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:07:05
                                   I think it is more than that - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:10:53
                                        But what about those who don't believe natural - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:14:31
                                             what do you think is required of you? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:16:54
                                        bravo, mate - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:12:44
                                             As a former liberal - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:16:11
                                                  hugs (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:17:33
                                   That same force is why churches were shut down during - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:07:43
                                        well..under Law and Order - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:11:31
                                        sure is (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:09:12
                         he can't either, but he's trying (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:04:14
                    LMAO. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:02:07
          that isn't at all what you typed - and what exactly would - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:56:28
          What does the Libertarian Party want to force on you?(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:55:05
               For the ones here the other day - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 21:56:04
                    Natural law doesn't inflict one's will on another - ummmm MU - 11/12 21:59:05
                         They support laws that reinforce natural law - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:03:31
                              The laws that protect individual rights? - ummmm MU - 11/12 22:09:13
                                   And why should those who don't believe in natural - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:12:10
                                        The right not to get murdered? The right to not have - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:13:22
                                             Yes - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:16:41
                                                  no. Do you have an issue with this? I think you're trying t - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:22:02
                                                  LOL - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:18:17
                                        Who are these people - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:13:01
                              and...which of those imposes upon you something you - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:05:46
                              What laws? Laws against murder? Theft? Assault?(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:04:51
                                   he clearly had no idea about property - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:08:43
                    How does Natural Law force anything upon you?(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:57:25
                         It forces him to not be able to force women to not abort - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:02:01
                    be specific. what would libertarians force you to do? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:56:53
     "They want laws...." LMAO.(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:46:05
          libertarians don't eschew laws, matt (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:48:49
               I don't follow the Libertarian Party, but libertarians could - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:50:44
                    yes, and how they are enforced and adjudicated (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:51:21
                         That would depend on how far in the spectrum the society - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:53:36




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