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He's literally taking the position that libertarians are bad

Posted on: November 12, 2022 at 22:25:15 CT
90Tiger STL
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because they don't align with people who think murder and theft are ok.

He's trying to equate natural rights with what he's supporting, but missing the part where natural rights doesn't support capricious laws for positive rights or that create, inherently, an infringement upon others.
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Please read this post from 4Tigs and consider it. - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:44:50
     He's an idiot. (nm) - ashtray UF - 11/13 07:02:32
     That is incorrect - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 21:54:11
          Wrong place - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 21:59:54
               LMAO. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:01:46
          Do you have an example of the latter? (nm) - ummmm MU - 11/12 21:57:03
               Their views on natural law - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:01:17
                    that's your example of llbertarians enforcing their views on - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:03:50
                         Is the purpose of all laws to inflict the will - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:10:44
                              not at all(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:12:16
                                   So what is the purpose of laws(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:15:09
                                        to prevent others (including gvmt) from - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:18:25
                                        they should be to protect people - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:17:06
                                             You are free to think that - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:21:50
                                                  I am not forcing anyone to live by my notion - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:23:00
                                                       So you support no laws, even those that - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:25:25
                                                            Do you believe murder is ever justified? Do you believe - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:26:34
                                                                 No, but that is why I have no issue saying I support laws - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:32:08
                                                                      Negative Rights do not inflict anything on anyone. Why are - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:34:26
                                                                           And that is my point - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:42:11
                                                                                4Tigs - if you think laws should protect murder, theft and k - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:44:56
                                                                                     I think there should be laws against all those things - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:46:41
                                                                                          A libertarian would protect your right to worship Christ. Y - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:50:06
                                                                                               Name one law you support that is not an attempt - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:51:24
                                                                                                    right to life, property (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:56:08
                                                                                                    I claim a right not to be murdered. I am not murdered - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:53:14
                                                                                                    law against murder(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:52:40
                                                                                                         So should someone who sees no issue with - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:53:54
                                                                                                              someone who wishes to kill me or steal from me is - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:56:53
                                                                                                              yes - you know a lot of these people or disagree with this? - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:55:40
                                                                                                              They took action against the law. The law did not force - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:55:08
                                                                                                              who would "see no issue" with murder?(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:54:31
                                                                                          Great start, other than "inflicting your will". Is it your h - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:49:05
                                                                                               Of course - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:52:48
                                                                                                    Right - so rather than letting a majority of current people - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:54:30
                                                                                                         Because the very people who want laws to support these thing - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:57:27
                                                                                                              "tradition"? how about the entirety of human history (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 23:00:48
                                                                                                              no 4Tigs, nobody has an issue with your support of murder - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 23:00:19
                                                                                                              A negative law does not inflict will on others! It forces - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:58:25
                                                                                          And if someone says that Christianiry causes harm and - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:48:14
                                                                                               No, I think it's wrong and I would fight it - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:50:25
                                                                                                    "inflict my will of what is right"? - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:52:54
                                                                                                    A law I support is Thou Shalt Not Murder.(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:51:21
                                                                                                         Should a person who sees no issue with murder - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:54:56
                                                                                                              A law against murder forces no one to take action. It - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:56:34
                                                                                                                   We are getting ready to land - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:59:41
                                                                      4Tigs, you're supporting laws that infringe upon others. - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:33:58
                                                                           And you are free to have that opinion - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:40:28
                                                                                it's not an opinion. name a law you support that I wouldn't - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:45:34
                                                                                     I want to know a law you support - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:48:35
                                                                                          RE: I want to know a law you support - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:57:29
                                                                                          It has been talked about many times - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:50:40
                                                                                Just admit you wish to force your will upon others even if - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:41:11
                                                                                     As do you if you believe in punishing - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:43:12
                                                                                          these are rights YOU see as individual rights, 4Tigs. We jus - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:46:52
                                                                                          No. Here is a negative law. Do not murder. - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:45:50
                                                                                               Nothing, but I get punished if I do - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:47:24
                                                                                                    we've established this. Now discuss the laws you support - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:58:06
                                                                                                    Because you took action, when no one forced you to against - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:49:18
                                                       He's literally taking the position that libertarians are bad - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:25:15
                                                            At this point I think you could get him to defend Satan(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:28:20
                                                                 Look, I agree we should have those laws - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:33:47
                                                                      a law against murder is no infliction of will(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:36:37
                                                                           So one who murders will not be punished?(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:37:21
                                                                                Yes. They took positive action to violate the negative - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:39:06
                                                                                     Why should they be punished? - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:44:06
                                                                                          who doesn't agree with these rights??????? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:58:34
                                                                                          why are you focusing on this instead of the laws you support - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:50:54
                                                                                          It isn't my notion of rights. It is universal.(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:47:02
                                                                                what? - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:38:50
                                                                                you misread his post; he means a law against murder forces - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:38:20
                                                                      4Tigs, the difference is you support laws that infringe upon - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:34:36
                                                                           And this is the crux 90 - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:36:43
                                                                                it isn't my belief, it's a fact. my position requires nothin - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:39:42
                                                                                     What is a fact? - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:45:08
                                                                                          Fact: natural law requires nothing of anyone other than - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:48:07
                                                                                OMG. A law against murder is not forcing anyone to - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:38:08
                                                                                     he's untangling 40+ years here (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:40:10
                    It's not a belief. There's no imposition. - ummmm MU - 11/12 22:03:03
                         Removing laws that restrict individual rights is somehow - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:06:05
                              My question is what laws do they support and why? - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:09:21
                                   Laws supporting Negative rights do not inflict one's - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:11:59
                                        He doesn't understand negative and positive rights (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:13:14
                                        Define negative rights(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:13:01
                                             RE: Define negative rights(nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:16:17
                                                  Ok. Keeping your property - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:18:30
                                                       natural rights supports property rights, not "survival - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:23:28
                                                            Correct. That is my point. - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:29:25
                                                                 these laws don't require anyone to do anything, 4Tigs. you - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:35:36
                                                                      They require people to share your view of - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:38:20
                                                                           4Tigs, they don't require my view be shared at all. they sim - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:41:44
                                                                                How dare you force those views on someone(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:42:34
                                                                           Yes.. you would be taking a positive action against the - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:40:17
                                                                 Laws that protect an individual's property are defense of - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:30:30
                                                                      Should there be laws against doing that?(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:34:48
                                                                           a law stating all children will receive education level X - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:37:32
                                                                                If I don't believe stealing is wrong, so I get punished - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:39:50
                                                                                     The difference is what laws libertarians DON'T support, not - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:44:11
                                                                                     Have you ever found a person who believes stealing is not - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:40:59
                                                                                          4Tigs has had a worse night than Pubs last Tuesday (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:59:21
                                                                           sigh - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:36:10
                                                                           Yes. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:35:55
                                                       Rights has nothing to do with survival of the fittest(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:20:56
                                                       You're hopelessly lost. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:20:17
                                                            Because you cannot answer the question of - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:23:18
                                                                 RE: Because you cannot answer the question of - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:25:33
                                                                 The negative rights holder isn't doing anything. Natural - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:25:28
                                                            that was truly pathetic (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:20:39
                                                       the group wanting to steal the possessions of others would - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:19:57
                                                            Who thought we could get 4tigs siding with thieves(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:21:44
                                                                 I think I could get him to side with the devil logically, gi - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:22:39
                                                                      If you demand a law against murder - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:23:34
                                   what will is being inflicted on others with libertarianism - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:10:23
                              4Tigs won't admit this, but he just wants gvmt to enforce - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:07:05
                                   I think it is more than that - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:10:53
                                        But what about those who don't believe natural - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:14:31
                                             what do you think is required of you? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:16:54
                                        bravo, mate - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:12:44
                                             As a former liberal - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:16:11
                                                  hugs (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:17:33
                                   That same force is why churches were shut down during - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:07:43
                                        well..under Law and Order - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:11:31
                                        sure is (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:09:12
                         he can't either, but he's trying (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:04:14
                    LMAO. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:02:07
          that isn't at all what you typed - and what exactly would - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:56:28
          What does the Libertarian Party want to force on you?(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:55:05
               For the ones here the other day - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 21:56:04
                    Natural law doesn't inflict one's will on another - ummmm MU - 11/12 21:59:05
                         They support laws that reinforce natural law - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:03:31
                              The laws that protect individual rights? - ummmm MU - 11/12 22:09:13
                                   And why should those who don't believe in natural - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:12:10
                                        The right not to get murdered? The right to not have - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:13:22
                                             Yes - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:16:41
                                                  no. Do you have an issue with this? I think you're trying t - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:22:02
                                                  LOL - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:18:17
                                        Who are these people - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:13:01
                              and...which of those imposes upon you something you - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:05:46
                              What laws? Laws against murder? Theft? Assault?(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:04:51
                                   he clearly had no idea about property - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:08:43
                    How does Natural Law force anything upon you?(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:57:25
                         It forces him to not be able to force women to not abort - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:02:01
                    be specific. what would libertarians force you to do? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:56:53
     "They want laws...." LMAO.(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:46:05
          libertarians don't eschew laws, matt (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:48:49
               I don't follow the Libertarian Party, but libertarians could - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:50:44
                    yes, and how they are enforced and adjudicated (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:51:21
                         That would depend on how far in the spectrum the society - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:53:36




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