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Please read this post from 4Tigs and consider it. - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:44:50

He's an idiot. (nm) - ashtray UF - 11/13 07:02:32

That is incorrect - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 21:54:11

Wrong place - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 21:59:54

LMAO. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:01:46

Do you have an example of the latter? (nm) - ummmm MU - 11/12 21:57:03

Their views on natural law - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:01:17

that's your example of llbertarians enforcing their views on - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:03:50

Is the purpose of all laws to inflict the will - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:10:44

not at all(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:12:16

So what is the purpose of laws(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:15:09

to prevent others (including gvmt) from - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:18:25

they should be to protect people - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:17:06

You are free to think that - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:21:50

I am not forcing anyone to live by my notion - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:23:00

So you support no laws, even those that - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:25:25

Do you believe murder is ever justified? Do you believe - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:26:34

No, but that is why I have no issue saying I support laws - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:32:08

Negative Rights do not inflict anything on anyone. Why are - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:34:26

And that is my point - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:42:11

4Tigs - if you think laws should protect murder, theft and k - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:44:56

I think there should be laws against all those things - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:46:41

A libertarian would protect your right to worship Christ. Y - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:50:06

Name one law you support that is not an attempt - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:51:24

right to life, property (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:56:08

I claim a right not to be murdered. I am not murdered - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:53:14

law against murder(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:52:40

So should someone who sees no issue with - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:53:54

someone who wishes to kill me or steal from me is - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:56:53

yes - you know a lot of these people or disagree with this? - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:55:40

They took action against the law. The law did not force - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:55:08

who would "see no issue" with murder?(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:54:31

Great start, other than "inflicting your will". Is it your h - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:49:05

Of course - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:52:48

Right - so rather than letting a majority of current people - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:54:30

Because the very people who want laws to support these thing - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:57:27

"tradition"? how about the entirety of human history (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 23:00:48

no 4Tigs, nobody has an issue with your support of murder - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 23:00:19

A negative law does not inflict will on others! It forces - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:58:25

And if someone says that Christianiry causes harm and - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:48:14

No, I think it's wrong and I would fight it - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:50:25

"inflict my will of what is right"? - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:52:54

A law I support is Thou Shalt Not Murder.(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:51:21

Should a person who sees no issue with murder - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:54:56

A law against murder forces no one to take action. It - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:56:34

We are getting ready to land - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:59:41

4Tigs, you're supporting laws that infringe upon others. - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:33:58

And you are free to have that opinion - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:40:28

it's not an opinion. name a law you support that I wouldn't - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:45:34

I want to know a law you support - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:48:35

RE: I want to know a law you support - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:57:29

It has been talked about many times - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:50:40

Just admit you wish to force your will upon others even if - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:41:11

As do you if you believe in punishing - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:43:12

these are rights YOU see as individual rights, 4Tigs. We jus - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:46:52

No. Here is a negative law. Do not murder. - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:45:50

Nothing, but I get punished if I do - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:47:24

we've established this. Now discuss the laws you support - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:58:06

Because you took action, when no one forced you to against - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:49:18

He's literally taking the position that libertarians are bad - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:25:15

At this point I think you could get him to defend Satan(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:28:20

Look, I agree we should have those laws - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:33:47

a law against murder is no infliction of will(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:36:37

So one who murders will not be punished?(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:37:21

Yes. They took positive action to violate the negative - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:39:06

Why should they be punished? - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:44:06

who doesn't agree with these rights??????? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:58:34

why are you focusing on this instead of the laws you support - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:50:54

It isn't my notion of rights. It is universal.(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:47:02

what? - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:38:50

you misread his post; he means a law against murder forces - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:38:20

4Tigs, the difference is you support laws that infringe upon - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:34:36

And this is the crux 90 - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:36:43

it isn't my belief, it's a fact. my position requires nothin - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:39:42

What is a fact? - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:45:08

Fact: natural law requires nothing of anyone other than - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:48:07

OMG. A law against murder is not forcing anyone to - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:38:08

he's untangling 40+ years here (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:40:10

It's not a belief. There's no imposition. - ummmm MU - 11/12 22:03:03

Removing laws that restrict individual rights is somehow - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:06:05

My question is what laws do they support and why? - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:09:21

Laws supporting Negative rights do not inflict one's - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:11:59

He doesn't understand negative and positive rights (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:13:14

Define negative rights(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:13:01

RE: Define negative rights(nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:16:17

Ok. Keeping your property - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:18:30

natural rights supports property rights, not "survival - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:23:28

Correct. That is my point. - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:29:25

these laws don't require anyone to do anything, 4Tigs. you - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:35:36

They require people to share your view of - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:38:20

4Tigs, they don't require my view be shared at all. they sim - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:41:44

How dare you force those views on someone(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:42:34

Yes.. you would be taking a positive action against the - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:40:17

Laws that protect an individual's property are defense of - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:30:30

Should there be laws against doing that?(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:34:48

a law stating all children will receive education level X - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:37:32

If I don't believe stealing is wrong, so I get punished - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:39:50

The difference is what laws libertarians DON'T support, not - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:44:11

Have you ever found a person who believes stealing is not - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:40:59

4Tigs has had a worse night than Pubs last Tuesday (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:59:21

sigh - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:36:10

Yes. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:35:55

Rights has nothing to do with survival of the fittest(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:20:56

You're hopelessly lost. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:20:17

Because you cannot answer the question of - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:23:18

RE: Because you cannot answer the question of - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:25:33

The negative rights holder isn't doing anything. Natural - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:25:28

that was truly pathetic (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:20:39

the group wanting to steal the possessions of others would - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:19:57

Who thought we could get 4tigs siding with thieves(nm) - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:21:44

I think I could get him to side with the devil logically, gi - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:22:39

If you demand a law against murder - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:23:34

what will is being inflicted on others with libertarianism - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:10:23

4Tigs won't admit this, but he just wants gvmt to enforce - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:07:05

I think it is more than that - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:10:53

But what about those who don't believe natural - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:14:31

what do you think is required of you? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:16:54

bravo, mate - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:12:44

As a former liberal - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:16:11

hugs (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:17:33

That same force is why churches were shut down during - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:07:43

well..under Law and Order - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:11:31

sure is (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:09:12

he can't either, but he's trying (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:04:14

LMAO. (nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:02:07

that isn't at all what you typed - and what exactly would - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:56:28

What does the Libertarian Party want to force on you?(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:55:05

For the ones here the other day - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 21:56:04

Natural law doesn't inflict one's will on another - ummmm MU - 11/12 21:59:05

They support laws that reinforce natural law - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:03:31

The laws that protect individual rights? - ummmm MU - 11/12 22:09:13

And why should those who don't believe in natural - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:12:10

The right not to get murdered? The right to not have - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:13:22

Yes - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 11/12 22:16:41

no. Do you have an issue with this? I think you're trying t - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:22:02

LOL - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:18:17

Who are these people - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:13:01

and...which of those imposes upon you something you - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:05:46

What laws? Laws against murder? Theft? Assault?(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 22:04:51

he clearly had no idea about property - meatiger MU - 11/12 22:08:43

How does Natural Law force anything upon you?(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:57:25

It forces him to not be able to force women to not abort - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 22:02:01

be specific. what would libertarians force you to do? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:56:53

"They want laws...." LMAO.(nm) - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:46:05

libertarians don't eschew laws, matt (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:48:49

I don't follow the Libertarian Party, but libertarians could - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:50:44

yes, and how they are enforced and adjudicated (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 11/12 21:51:21

That would depend on how far in the spectrum the society - TigerMatt KC - 11/12 21:53:36

Look, I agree we should have those laws

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