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RE: I understand the origin. It's just silly to deny the role

Posted on: September 10, 2021 at 11:26:13 CT
ummmm MU
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I get the whole natural rights thing but if you are punished or beaten or arrested or killed for exercising those rights, do you really possess those rights?

Yes, you still possess those inalienable rights. It helps to understand why the punishment, beating, arrest, and execution are immoral and evil acts. They are immoral and evil because they infringe on rights.

What does the right to freedom of speech mean? That you can speak but then the government beats the shlt out of you, locks you in prison and denies you the right to be heard? You can speak but only to yourself in solitary confinement?

This is a good example as to why rights only come from nature, and not governments. The First Amendment doesn't ultimately do anything to stop the federal govt from infringing on individual's rights to speech. The First Amendment is an attempt to codify natural rights, but the govt doesn't care and will infringe on them.

That doesn't change the nature of where those rights come from. It demonstrates that govt is a terrible safekeeper of rights. (of course, govt exists by theft and infringement of rights in the first place, so what should you really expect?).

If you have the right to own property and the government nationalizes it and throws you off of it like in south africa, do you have the right to property?

YES! And that's how you know the govt infringed on your rights. That was YOUR property, not the governments.

What good is a right if it cannot be freely exercised?

This is the wrong questions. Rights aren't good or bad or anything of the sort. They just are.

You have a superior right to your life, liberty, and property. This exists regardless of the varying levels of govt or non-govt interference with them.

And who determines whether or not it can be freely exercised?

No one person. Rights come from nature.
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Are the bill of rights rights granted to the individual by - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 10:36:08
     The bill of Rights simply identifies those rights that our - DHighlander NWMSU - 9/10 11:13:45
          You're using the wrong word. - ummmm MU - 9/10 11:20:27
               Because rights are taken away on whims all the time. - DHighlander NWMSU - 9/10 11:26:15
                    incorrect (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:38:19
                    goddamn (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:29:56
                         You'd think the phrase "rights are taken away on whims - ummmm MU - 9/10 11:30:56
                              DH is not a rational person (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:31:56
                    Then they are not RIGHTS. - ummmm MU - 9/10 11:28:22
          Read the declaration of independence. I'll wait(nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:16:53
               You asked about the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Indep - DHighlander NWMSU - 9/10 11:19:50
                    Omg. You teach children. Scary(nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:25:12
                    wow (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:24:09
                    right, the two are completely unrelated - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:21:39
               he has already stated he doesn't believe in that document (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:17:46
                    I actually said no such thing. Your ability to comprehend - DHighlander NWMSU - 9/10 11:23:09
                         lol you just agreed with him (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:28:20
                         "no I didn't" / "yes I did" isn't an argument that going to - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:24:25
                              I can agree with a statement while understanding that it is - DHighlander NWMSU - 9/10 11:33:26
                                   guarantee or define? - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:35:37
                                   Guarantee (not infringe upon) (nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:35:27
          and another statist chimes in (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:14:39
     Rights, or lack of rights, can only come from the gov't, - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 10:55:04
          West Point Education isn’t paying off(nm) - El-ahrairah BAMA - 9/10 10:59:27
          incorrect (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 10:59:00
          "Rights only come from this one thing, unless they come from - ummmm MU - 9/10 10:58:40
               Somewhat. On this subject there will - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 11:02:37
                    maybe you’re stupid? (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:09:00
                    Lol. GAT. So you think the declaration of independence is - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:04:29
                         Actually I think it came from the best gov't yet formed. - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 11:07:41
                              Try reading it. I'll wait(nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:08:38
                              and you would be wrong - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:08:22
               Where do they come from? nm - hokie VT - 9/10 11:01:10
                    nature. they are inherent to humans (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:06:59
                    You are born with them. Have you read your wall hanging yet? - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:02:24
                         Born with "rights"? Please, let the Afghan women know that. - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 11:05:41
                              the afghan women were born with the rights. the taliban is - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 9/10 11:11:49
                                   I take your point. But for all practical purposes if a woman - hokie VT - 9/10 11:14:15
                                        yes (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:19:41
                                        Yes, otherwise what is being suppressed? (nm) - ummmm MU - 9/10 11:19:14
                                             Nothing is being suppressed in af'stan because women - hokie VT - 9/10 11:20:45
                                                  See the problem with deferring to govt then? - ummmm MU - 9/10 11:27:52
                                                       Lol. This will tie his brain up into a pretzel (nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:36:45
                                                            what brain? (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:38:08
                                                  Think of it this way. Take an afghan woman - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 9/10 11:24:57
                                                       Not if her husband is going to beat the shlt out of her for - hokie VT - 9/10 11:41:32
                                                            You're adding another variable - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 9/10 11:48:04
                                                            you would make a good communist (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:42:06
                                                  wrong (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:23:22
                                                  incorrect (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:21:59
                                        yes the right exists independent of anyone trying to deny it - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 9/10 11:17:05
                                        Yes she does. Government is infringing on her unalienable - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:16:13
                                        yes (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:14:56
                                   because GAT is an indoctrinated statist (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:13:29
                              yes, born with them (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:08:21
                              Just because governments infringe upon them doesn't make - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:07:59
                         Are somalies, chinamen, saudis and mexicans born with them - hokie VT - 9/10 11:04:29
                              everyone -past, present, future - has the same rights - pickle MU - 9/10 11:08:03
                                   It is hard when THEY CAN'T USE THE RIGHTS. - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 11:11:56
                                        go to sleep, old man (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:20:26
                                        BECAUSE GOVERNMENT IS INFRINGING UPON THEM(nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:12:54
                                             THEN DON'T SAY THEY HAVE THEM.(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 12:06:21
                              Yes. They are indeed. Just like you are.(nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:05:17
                                   If their rights aren't recognized or enforced to they exist? - hokie VT - 9/10 11:08:47
                                        They exist regardless of them being infringed upon. Read - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:10:19
                                             That's the point. Our founders, who i revere btw, codified - hokie VT - 9/10 11:29:02
                                                  they didn't make them up (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:36:15
                                                  revere = worship (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:30:26
                                             why would someone put something on his wall that he - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:11:35
                                                  Right?(nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:13:17
                                        rights aren’t enforced (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:10:16
                                             Too abstract for him. See TigerMatt's toy post. (nm) - ummmm MU - 9/10 11:12:45
                                                  he thinks rights are positive - pickle MU - 9/10 11:21:26
                                             Why is this so hard for people to get? It is literally - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:11:54
                                   And your answer to my question above?(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 11:06:40
                              all men - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:05:01
                    hopeless and unreachable (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:01:30
                    Nature. (nm) - ummmm MU - 9/10 11:01:26
                         What does that mean, exactly? How do you know and who - hokie VT - 9/10 11:07:29
                              It means that the rights to life, liberty, and property are - ummmm MU - 9/10 11:12:05
                                   I understand the origin. It's just silly to deny the role - hokie VT - 9/10 11:19:13
                                        RE: I understand the origin. It's just silly to deny the role - ummmm MU - 9/10 11:26:13
                                             vague (nm) - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:37:51
                                        do you also hang posters with communist tenants? - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:23:33
                              discovered by humans’ ability to reason (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 11:09:44
          no, GAT (nm) - pickle MU - 9/10 10:58:25
          False. (nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 10:56:12
               Then I expect an example to show I'm wrong.(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 10:58:54
                    Read the declaration of independence and the bill of rights. - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 10:59:45
                         Is your point that those do NOT come from gov't? - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 11:03:32
                              Um. Yeah GAT. That's my point. It was also Jefferson and - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:06:35
                                   You aren't very old, are you, since you - GA Tiger MU - 9/10 11:10:09
                                        I'm 52 GAT and I can read. (nm) - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 11:14:34
                    read the Declaration of Independence - ashtray UF - 9/10 10:59:42
     They are pretty much the same thing, aren't they? The gov - hokie VT - 9/10 10:54:58
          no, it isn't an Obama term - ashtray UF - 9/10 11:00:47
          negative rights is not an obama term - pickle MU - 9/10 10:59:04
          False. Read your wall hanging. You know, the one you - hefeweizen MU - 9/10 10:57:25




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