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I asked the questions in the original post with you in mind,

Posted on: March 12, 2021 at 18:06:59 CT
JeffB MU
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but I know you won't have an honest discussion about them.

Perhaps you could prove me wrong here and finally engage in a rational discussion and how your views on rights would play out in a situation such as the one posted above. If not, perhaps ashtray or others who share similar views to you and understand rights as you define them would be willing to do so.

I will restate the questions directly to you if that would help. pickle, if Mr. Robert Payne, the man arrested for soliciting what he thought was a 16 year old boy for sex and porn had shot a policeman trying to arrest him, would he have been justified in doing so? If so, why?

Edited by JeffB at 18:10:55 on 03/12/21
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If he killed the police for trying to arrest him would he be - JeffB MU - 3/12 16:27:57
     Where’d that paperboy go? (nm) - HandBanana MU - 3/12 18:09:43
     you will never understand rights (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 16:40:29
          Here's your big chance to explain them to me & TB. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 16:42:56
               are you new here? (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/12 16:46:37
                    You know better than that. - JeffB MU - 3/12 16:52:44
                         my view is we have one side of the story - ashtray UF - 3/12 16:57:19
                              No doubt. The details in the story are pretty sparse, but it - JeffB MU - 3/12 18:01:18
                                   If I tried to handcuff you and lock you in a cage - ashtray UF - 3/12 19:47:48
                                        Does that mean that you think Mr. Payne would have been - JeffB MU - 3/12 19:50:59
                                             Reasonable force in self defense, yes - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:03:29
                                                  That is not kidnapping, of course. Only the tiniest of - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:35:02
                                                       you will never understand rights, Jeff (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 3/12 20:56:17
                                                       wrong, Jeff - pickle MU - 3/12 20:40:47
                                                       terrible argument. do better - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:36:49
                                                            My point is that if societies were based upon your preferred - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:40:45
                                                                 that's your opinion - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:42:42
                                                                      he cannot have an honest conversation - pickle MU - 3/12 20:47:31
                                                                           You stopped pretending to have a rational conversation, but - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:52:52
                                                                                did you not say in this thread that you had me in mind - pickle MU - 3/12 20:55:25
                                                                                     and Mr. Hypocrite chimes in again with his questions and - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:58:45
                                                                                          Jeff, you are mental. read the post (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 21:00:43
                                                                      The society you prefer is a figment of your imagination. - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:46:51
                                                                           that doesn't address my argument at all - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:51:48
                                                                                As I said, the situations are not analogous. But if YOU were - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:56:42
                                                                                     what's the difference? (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:58:40
                                                                                          I already told you multiple times. There's a social contract - JeffB MU - 3/12 21:01:12
                                                                                               I already told you before. I didn't sign a contract (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/12 21:01:34
                                                                                                    You think homeowners' associations rules are valid, though, - JeffB MU - 3/12 21:04:18
                                                                                                         yes, you sign those, you idiot (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 3/12 21:18:29
                                                                                                         yes, I agreed to that when I purchased my house - ashtray UF - 3/12 21:07:48
                                                                                                              and what if you had inherited it? Would you not be bound by - JeffB MU - 3/12 21:22:52
                                                                                                                   I could sell the house (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/12 21:30:24
                                                                                                                        The analogy here is that you could move from this country - JeffB MU - 3/12 21:46:47
                                                                                                                             it's a false equivalence - ashtray UF - 3/12 21:56:13
                                                                                                                                  No, the analogy is reasonable. Unless all of your ancestors - JeffB MU - 3/12 22:23:57
                                                                                                                                       no, it's absurd (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/13 12:05:44
                                                                                                                             you will never understand rights (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 21:48:49
                                                                                                         here’s where the thread should have ended - pickle MU - 3/12 21:05:52
                                                                           here is your dishonesty revealed - pickle MU - 3/12 20:48:31
                                                                                You are the personification of hypocrisy pickle. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:51:15
                                                                                     RE: You are the personification of hypocrisy pickle. (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 20:55:53
                                                                 if that is your point then you’re dodging the question - pickle MU - 3/12 20:41:28
                                                                      Chad is the example, not the argument Mr. Hypocrite. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:43:30
                                                                           “What gives the officer the authority to kidnap him?” - pickle MU - 3/12 20:45:47
                                                                           why would you use that as an example unless you were - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:44:13
                                                  Given that most police are carrying guns would that mean - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:10:56
                                                       Once again you don’t answer a question. - pickle MU - 3/12 20:12:51
                                                            Mr. hypocrite himself pontificating once again. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:16:57
                                                                 the only hypocrite here is you, Jeff (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 20:17:33
                                                                      You are such a dishonest person pickle. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:26:55
                                                                           no, Jeff. (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 20:32:23
                                                                                Yes pickle. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:35:28
                                                                                     alright, i’ll humor you - pickle MU - 3/12 20:40:15
                                                                                          It isn't a sound bite. The fact that you have so frequently - JeffB MU - 3/12 21:14:48
                                                                                               answer the question, Jeff - pickle MU - 3/12 21:27:18
                                                       In most cases, yes. Of course - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:12:35
                                                            Do you think the anarchy of Chad would be preferable to - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:15:30
                                                                 can you please answer my question - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:17:16
                                                                      Fair enough. My contention is that your apparant attempt at - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:25:56
                                                                           you didn’t answer the question (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 20:30:30
                                                                           what's different about the cop? - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:29:51
                                                                                America, like all other countries and societies has a social - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:37:00
                                                                                     no, Jeff. there is no social contract - pickle MU - 3/12 20:38:26
                                                                                     I never signed a contract (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:37:35
                                                                 lol another question you don’t answer - pickle MU - 3/12 20:16:41
                                                                      Mr. hypocrite himself pontificating once again. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:17:15
                                                                           he's right, Jeff. Why won't you answer a question - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:17:49
                                                                                I answered yours, though I noted that it was a poor analogy(nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:28:54
                                                                                     you haven’t answered a single question (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 20:29:51
                                                                                he does this in every thread - pickle MU - 3/12 20:20:10
                                                                                     what a hypocrite (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:20:48
                                                                                          six posts you asked a question - pickle MU - 3/12 20:25:47
                                             you are incapable of answering a question (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 19:54:46
                                                  You are such a pathetic hypocrite pickle. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:01:05
                                                       you don’t answer questions, Jeff. answer the question (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 20:03:48
                                                            Mr. hypocrite himself pontificating once again. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:12:32
                                                                 there’s no hypocrisy, Jeff - pickle MU - 3/12 20:14:31
                                                                      You are the epitomy of hypocrisy pickle, running and hiding - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:50:27
                                                                           wow, the irony is rich (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:52:09
                                                                                he’s mentally unstable (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 21:01:12
                                                                                     RE: he’s mentally unstable (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/12 21:02:08
                         if if if (nm) - pickle MU - 3/12 16:53:17
                              Hide, hide, hide. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 16:53:53
                                   i’m right here, Jeff - pickle MU - 3/12 16:58:36
                                        You're hiding from the questions, pickle. You could easily - JeffB MU - 3/12 17:49:15
                                             How's do you know he thought he was 16? - ashtray UF - 3/12 20:05:34
                                             you mean explain to you, not “us”. and you didn’t ask - pickle MU - 3/12 17:56:00
                                                  I asked the questions in the original post with you in mind, - JeffB MU - 3/12 18:06:59
                                                       No you didn’t. “How about yourself?” - pickle MU - 3/12 18:28:57
                                                            Still dancing and dodging I see. Don't be such a hypocrite. - JeffB MU - 3/12 18:37:13
                                                                 I directly addressed your post and corrected you - pickle MU - 3/12 18:40:40
                                                                      More deflection... running and hiding from the questions. - JeffB MU - 3/12 18:56:18
                                                                           i directly addressed that post too, Jeff - pickle MU - 3/12 19:00:10
                                                                                Your dancing and dodging, not to mention your hypocrisy - JeffB MU - 3/12 19:02:46
                                                                                     Jeff, pay attention - pickle MU - 3/12 19:26:28
                                                                                          Your deflections don't hide your hypocrisy nor your duplicit - JeffB MU - 3/12 19:48:24
                                                                                               you’re going off the rails, Jeff - pickle MU - 3/12 19:54:08
                                                                                                    Your duplicitous deflections aren't hiding your cowardice - JeffB MU - 3/12 20:02:05
                                                                                                         Jeff, every accusation you have made is wrong - pickle MU - 3/12 20:04:44
     RE: If he killed the police for trying to arrest him would he be - scan MU - 3/12 16:31:48
          Or you looked like an undercover policeman. (nm) - JeffB MU - 3/12 16:33:39




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