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Pretty much all 'scientific fact' is a 'consensus opinion'.

Posted on: June 4, 2018 at 13:02:28 CT
JeffB MU
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When all of the medical textbooks and the top embryologists from around the world unanimously agree... and assert that it isn't even open to question, it's absurd for someone like Tigermatt to assert the opposite with ZERO evidence to back up his assertion.

The reason that I bring up the scientific aspect, is because it is a critical piece of the syllogism:

A. Deliberately killing an innocent human being is immoral
B. Abortion is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being.

therefore

C. Abortion is immoral.

The religious component of that syllogism is "A".

The factual scientific component is "B".

If the two premises "A" and "B" are true, then the conclusion logically follows.

Most people do not openly dispute that deliberately killing an innocent human being is immoral, so they dishonestly try and assert that the child who is executed in an abortion is not really a human being. But that is just a scientific fact, or as Dr. Jerome Lejeune put it:

“Father of Modern Genetics” Dr. Jerome Lejeune told the lawmakers: “To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion … it is plain experimental evidence.”

We ought to at least attempt to base our opinions upon the known facts, and the fact is that the goal of every abortion is to deliberately kill the being in his/her mother's womb... and that being has a human mother and a human father... making that being a human being.

The religious opinion is in reality whether or not it is immoral to deliberately kill innocent human beings and whether society has a right or a duty to prevent one human being from deliberately killing other innocent human beings.

Obviously, for an atheist, a human being is nothing more than a complex, random collection of atoms, so it may well be legitimate from that flawed understanding of reality to believe that killing innocent human beings... rearranging those random collections of molecules... is not "immoral".

But even atheists are loathe to admit to such a crass lack of morality, so they opt instead to try and deny scientific reality. God's Law is written in their hearts, no matter how hard they try to deny it, or even to hide it from themselves.
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     Where ya been these last few weeks? - TigerJackSwartz MU - 6/4 12:47:44
          RE: Where ya been these last few weeks? - pickle MU - 6/4 13:00:38
               cool (nm) - TigerJackSwartz MU - 6/4 13:03:50
     Meds - Tigrrrr! MU - 6/4 12:00:23
          I could stand to take some allergy medicine - pickle MU - 6/4 12:05:04
          You've seen the answer. You just willfully ignore it.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 6/4 11:40:01
               I have not seen any logical answer, but if you want to - JeffB MU - 6/4 11:41:01
                    You have. You just lack logic.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 6/4 11:41:54
                         If you believe you can support a logical answer, this is a - JeffB MU - 6/4 11:44:44
                              As I said. It has been done countless times. You just - TigerMatt MU - 6/4 12:01:14
                                   BS. There is no logical way to reconcile the two positions - JeffB MU - 6/4 12:07:33
                                        NAP applies to people, not a lump of tissue.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 6/4 12:11:35
                                             Oh, so you try and reconcile the absurdity by pretending - JeffB MU - 6/4 12:23:19
                                                  why do you lean so heavily on "scientific fact" (which - 90Tiger MU - 6/4 12:27:48
                                                       Pretty much all 'scientific fact' is a 'consensus opinion'. - JeffB MU - 6/4 13:02:28
                                                            You are mixing up terms. Human tissue and human being. - TigerMatt MU - 6/4 13:06:38
                                                                 Yes, EXACTLY. Read what the unanimous testimony of the top - JeffB MU - 6/4 13:33:52
                                                                      "unanimous testimony" - 90Tiger MU - 6/4 14:07:13
                                                                           Can you name some scientific facts that are not - JeffB MU - 6/4 14:18:06
     If we are all sovereign, - tcat UMKC - 6/4 11:27:31
          No (nm) - pickle MU - 6/4 11:31:21
               But what about that childs natural right to live? - tcat UMKC - 6/4 11:35:20
                    You asked if they "have to" - pickle MU - 6/4 11:43:26
                         Ok, I understand that point, but I have a follow on - tcat UMKC - 6/4 11:45:56
                              Nothing (nm) - pickle MU - 6/4 11:52:54
                                   So then it's ok to kill someone you produced and - tcat UMKC - 6/4 11:56:32
                                        No, I don't think that's ok at all. - pickle MU - 6/4 12:03:53
                                             What would be a better word for actively letting someone - tcat UMKC - 6/4 12:09:02
                                                  Lack of action is not action. - pickle MU - 6/4 12:11:32
                                                       Doing nothing IS doing something. - tcat UMKC - 6/4 12:16:03
                                                            "Who is supposed to protect them" - pickle MU - 6/4 12:19:34
                                                                 SO then No one has rights then?(nm) - tcat UMKC - 6/4 12:23:56
                                                                      That doesn't logically follow - pickle MU - 6/4 12:33:21
                                        "Moral responsibility". Who dictates what is moral and then - TigerMatt MU - 6/4 12:03:26
                                             So because you think deciding whether or not something is - JeffB MU - 6/4 12:12:37
                                                  More irrational thought from you.(nm) - TigerMatt MU - 6/4 12:41:10
                                                       No, more dodging of questions from you. No following - JeffB MU - 6/4 13:04:42
                              In a perfect world, others would be charitable enough - Mormad MU - 6/4 11:48:51
               But society doesn't have to, either, right? - Mormad MU - 6/4 11:34:39
     I believe mankind is inherently good and cooperative - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/4 11:18:15
          Great question. (nm) - Badird MU - 6/4 11:18:37
               I didn't see a question mark. (nm) - JeffB MU - 6/4 11:24:04
                    Why can't you ever read a question? - Mormad MU - 6/4 11:29:40
          RE: Why do you, hypocritically, not consider polllution as - Badird MU - 6/4 11:23:24
          On the face of it, it isn't aggression - pickle MU - 6/4 11:15:50
               The deliberate destruction of the planet is - MrBlueSky MU - 6/4 11:36:56
                    How is pollution destroying the planet? - tcat UMKC - 6/4 11:39:50
                    So why havent you stopped driving yet? (nm) - hefeweizen MU - 6/4 11:39:20
                    Who is deliberately destroying the planet? Please provide - JeffB MU - 6/4 11:39:08
                         I spit my gum out the window as I was driving back - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/4 11:46:10
                              On the other hand, how do we know for sure that that piece - JeffB MU - 6/4 11:47:23
                                   That's deep (nm) - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/4 13:23:20
                              Why do you insist on destroying the planet?(nm) - Mormad MU - 6/4 11:46:55
               Answer the question - JG MU - 6/4 11:16:46
                    I just did: pollution in and of itself is not aggression - pickle MU - 6/4 11:26:55
                         RE: I just did: pollution in and of itself is not aggression - JG MU - 6/4 11:43:08
                              Congrats on your retirement - pickle MU - 6/4 11:44:39
          Well of course I'm not going to use the word "should" - pickle MU - 6/4 11:12:19
          Maybe it's a question of degree for that person - Mormad MU - 6/4 11:09:10
               Yup. The dull pickles and his followers like most - hokie VT - 6/4 11:19:34
                    The irony here is off the charts (nm) - pickle MU - 6/4 11:30:12
               This board suggests otherwise. - ummmm MU - 6/4 11:18:30
                    So it's not possible to ever go "too far," is that right? nm - hokie VT - 6/4 11:24:31
                         In advocating for human liberty? - ummmm MU - 6/4 11:39:58
                              Define human liberty. Does it mean anarchy, where people - hokie VT - 6/4 11:44:56
                                   that isn't what anarchy is (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 6/4 12:32:41
                                   RE: Define human liberty. Does it mean anarchy, where people - ummmm MU - 6/4 11:52:02
                                   That's not what anarchy is (nm) - pickle MU - 6/4 11:46:48
                              Whoa! - pickle MU - 6/4 11:43:53
               They are antagonistic to a reduced role - pickle MU - 6/4 11:14:11
     can you define the capital "C" church for me?(nm) - cnk ATL - 6/4 11:05:52
          Sure. It is all churches/religious organizations - pickle MU - 6/4 11:10:45
               ok, thanks. follow up question - cnk ATL - 6/4 11:12:34
                    Imaginary friend clubs should not get tax advantages. - Rabbit Test MU - 6/4 11:16:26
                         The simpler solution would be to stop legalized mass theft - ummmm MU - 6/4 11:17:32
                              If it's legalized, is it really theft?* - tcat UMKC - 6/4 11:43:49
                                   Yes. But you can call it state-sanctioned theft if that - ummmm MU - 6/4 11:53:34
                                        I thank that is a better way of saying it evan though - tcat UMKC - 6/4 12:05:54
                                   Yes - pickle MU - 6/4 11:47:14
                                        But who decides that ?(nm) - tcat UMKC - 6/4 11:50:51
                                             Who decides what? (nm) - pickle MU - 6/4 11:53:26
                                                  If the "law" is force - tcat UMKC - 6/4 12:01:16
                                                       The individual decides that - pickle MU - 6/4 12:06:21
                                                            What happens when two individuals disagree - tcat UMKC - 6/4 12:22:49
                                                                 I don't know what happens. - pickle MU - 6/4 12:34:39
                    I support that completely (nm) - pickle MU - 6/4 11:16:21
                         then why destroy the Church? - cnk ATL - 6/4 11:18:18
                              That's a good question - pickle MU - 6/4 11:37:03
                                   I think I follow(nm) - cnk ATL - 6/4 11:46:35




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