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understanding libertarianism and rights

Posted on: October 19, 2021 at 12:23:34 CT
pickle MU
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would prevent you from twisting yourself in pretzels every time

But you’d have to recognize the individual instead of the collective
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So to review, libertarians here have strongly disagreed with - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:23:15
     Must be a record here. For length. If - GA Tiger MU - 10/19 11:52:44
          One can not argue with anarchist no govt losers. - RHAYWORTH MU - 10/19 12:06:49
               when will you start doing that? (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 12:12:04
     Sounds like one of the parties at the last Democrat national - Outsider MU - 10/19 11:01:14
          Amazing when Libertarians are conflated with Dems - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:18:18
               I guess I could have said any day on the downtown - Outsider MU - 10/19 11:42:06
     Your immorality is well documented - JG A - 10/19 10:56:48
          Is that your agrument against michigan's point? That is - hokie VT - 10/19 11:23:17
               His point is that he is an incredible hypocrite - JG A - 10/19 13:52:24
          Your truthfulness is well documented - Fourth and Long MU - 10/19 11:00:35
               thanks indeed it has - JG A - 10/19 13:51:56
               His hypocrisies are well documented. (nm) - Outsider MU - 10/19 11:02:17
                    Yes its easy to nail 4 tigs and you and hokie and....... - JG A - 10/19 13:53:06
     Their morality is like their "rights". Only they know what - hokie VT - 10/19 10:54:53
          you don’t pay attention (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 10:59:57
          that's more of a description of your intelligence and - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:56:04
               ZING, you got me. Good one. Off you go. nm - hokie VT - 10/19 11:10:38
                    I'm still here (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 12:11:09
     Are you responsible for every Republican position then? - El-ahrairah BAMA - 10/19 10:52:43
          No, and I will call our ones that are clearly wrong - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:54:00
               What’s more perverse than killing children? - El-ahrairah BAMA - 10/19 10:57:50
               You find deaths of innocents acceptable. - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 10:57:15
                    I find war to be abhorrent - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:00:09
                         You support the killing of innocents. &)(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:03:19
                              I realize it is an inevitable consequence of war - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:06:15
                                   Some of us recognize abortion is the inevitable consequence - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:11:52
                                        The only intent of abortion is to kill a child - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:13:07
                                             A fetus is not a child. Nm - SparkyStalcup MU - 10/19 12:12:38
                                             And what is the intent of a single act of war? (nm) - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:33:07
                                                  Usually to weaken the enemy(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:33:42
                                                       By doing what? (nm) - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:34:04
                                                            Taking out solders, equipment and land that are - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:35:17
                                                                 So, killing people. (nm) - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:37:26
                                                                      Yes - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:39:59
                                                                           Is it moral for you to go into another person's home, kill - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:43:02
                                                                                That would most certainly not be moral(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:45:13
                                                                                     Agree. But that is what the US has been doing for many - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:52:15
                                                                                          And you are entitled to that view(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:53:59
                                                                           Okay, well there you go. (nm) - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:42:51
                                                                                Killing soldiers in war is vastly different than targeting a - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:44:22
                                                                                     What is the intent of a single act of execution? - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:48:56
                                                                                          Murder is the intentional taking of innocent life - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:52:59
                                                                                               "innocent" is nowhere in any definition of murder(nm) - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:58:13
                                                                                                    If there is no legal reason for taking the life - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:59:58
                                                                                                         did Cain murder Abel? there was no gvmt - pickle MU - 10/19 12:03:53
                                                                                               no, there is no qualifier for murder (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 11:57:03
                                                                                               That didn't answer the question. Try again. (nm) - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:53:39
                                                                                                    I believe the death penalty is moral - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:55:10
                                                                                                         "we" - meatiger MU - 10/19 12:06:52
                                                                                                         What is the intent of a single act of execution? - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:58:27
                                                                                                              To take the life or the guilty person - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 12:00:48
                                                                                                                   The intent is to kill a human being. - ummmm MU - 10/19 12:12:03
                                                                                                                        Killing criminals and enemy combatants is not - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 12:14:49
                                                                                                                             Any "criminal" ??? - ummmm MU - 10/19 12:29:58
                                                                                                                                  Of course not - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 12:30:58
                                                                                                                             talk about immoral. you're a POS (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 12:17:51
                                                                                                                             It’s murder (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 12:17:51
                                                                                                         the death penalty is murder - pickle MU - 10/19 11:57:50
                                                                                     you excuse the murder of children - pickle MU - 10/19 11:48:50
                                                                                     The intent of a single act of war is to kill people and to - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:48:10
                                                                                          Correct, and war is a horrible thing - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:50:19
                                                                                               it's exactly like abortion unless you're an immoral POS (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 12:18:38
                                                                                               It's not an either/or. (nm) - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:54:00
                                                                                                    It absolutely is unless you equate the killing - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:56:59
                                                                                                         How is assessing the intent behind abortions and acts of war - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:59:25
                                                                                                              Law enforcement intentionally taking out an active - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 12:03:35
                                                                                                                   You're not doing a good job of showing that it's not an - ummmm MU - 10/19 12:13:11
                                                                                                                        There are degrees - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 12:15:27
                                                                                                                             That hasn't been debated in this thread. That's what you - ummmm MU - 10/19 12:21:44
                                                                                                                   you are dishonestly trying to reframe this - pickle MU - 10/19 12:05:10
                                                                                                                        impossible for him. it's like asking a snake not to bite (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 12:19:39
                                                                                     can you provide me a scale on the acceptibility of - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:47:38
                                                                                          Murder is wrong - period(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:51:55
                                                                                               * except kids murdered in war (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 11:58:52
                                                                                               including during war?(nm) - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:57:07
                                                                                                    Yes - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:59:11
                                                                                                         Isn't that exactly what a bomb does?(nm) - meatiger MU - 10/19 12:08:38
                                                                                                              If one targeted an orphanage simply to kill children - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 12:10:56
                                                                                                                   understanding libertarianism and rights - pickle MU - 10/19 12:23:34
                                             No it isn't. Many abortions are performed to save the life - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:15:09
                                                  Or even to prevent more harm to the kid - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:17:05
                                                       rethink that one meat (nm) - SwampTiger MU - 10/19 11:21:18
                                                            I can troll just as much as he can - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:23:14
                                                                 Oh, my - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:24:25
                                                            I cannot believe he posted that (nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:21:48
                                                       May be the meatiest post ever - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:20:04
                                                            yes - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:22:10
                                                                 So to prevent more harm - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:23:24
                                                                      That might be what a professional would say - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:25:07
                                                                           No professional would say thar - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:26:42
                                                                                Professionals - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:29:42
                                                                                     If they take out baby #8 they will not say - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:32:35
                                                  No, the abortion is performed to kill the child - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:16:44
                                                       The baby is collateral damage in an attempt to save the mom(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:19:59
                                                            Actually, the health of the mother is collateral benefit - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:21:10
                                   so you're good with it - ashtray UF - 10/19 11:06:36
                         yet you refuse to call it murder - pickle MU - 10/19 11:00:55
                              Collateral damage is a term used to dehumanize the lives - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:08:41
                                   much like insisting on using the term "Fetus" to dehumanize - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:26:18
                                        That is what I am hoping 4Tigs recognizes.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:32:43
                                             He won't. He's a master of hypocrisy (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 11:46:38
                              phony is an understatement (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 11:02:53
                    how can anybody be a Christian based on 4Taliban's beliefs? - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:57:53
                         There are many good Christian people - El-ahrairah BAMA - 10/19 11:00:07
                              Then I guess 4Taliban isn't one of them (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 11:47:27
               no you won't (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:55:15
     lol - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/19 10:50:13
     don't collectivize. Just because there are some that might - dangertim MU - 10/19 10:35:08
          Here are some Christian views... - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 10:37:40
               RE: Here are some Christian views... - Catturd USMC - 10/19 10:49:46
                    that says nothing about the topic - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:50:35
                         Just shows that we are the real deal - Catturd USMC - 10/19 10:52:42
                              I don't recall any scriptures promoting war and overthrowing - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 10:54:45
                                   You should sit down right now and read - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:55:45
                                        We are not Israel. We are not a nation being established to - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:01:45
                                             I did not say God always called for it - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:07:08
                                                  Paul made it clear the position Christians should take and - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:13:28
                                                       And again, I can only respond to your point you make - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:15:27
                                                            smug doesn't pay attention troll (nm) - SwampTiger MU - 10/19 11:34:32
                                                            No, TM said "I don't recall any scriptures promoting war and - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:32:30
                                                                 It's why he's on the list - ashtray UF - 10/19 11:50:10
                                                            Yet you didn't. I was specific in scripture applying to - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:20:53
                                                                 My bad if that was your intent - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:39:18
                                                                      he specifically said "christians", of course it was his - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:42:41
                                                                 you clearly stated "christians" in your first post- - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:34:07
                              no, you are so far from what the founders believed - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:54:35
               correct. I hope others don't act like 4smugs and attributes - dangertim MU - 10/19 10:45:27
                    I have made clear those views are not Christian - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:48:04
                         And others would disagree with you. See how this works? - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 10:52:16
                              Not one poster here has refuted the immoral stances - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:57:13
                                   It was done repeatedly yesterday.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:24:02
                                        he’s a dishonest troll (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 11:30:37
                                   when will you refute the immoral stance of murdering - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:59:02
               They most certainly are not as they deny the - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:39:39
                    No True Scotsman fallacy?(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 10:41:04
                         that's his specialty (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:42:05
               I can't believe 4TalibansinMichigan is so immoral - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:38:31
          And I would readily and boldly distance myself from - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:36:54
               double down on your lies - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:37:48
     always with the mischaracterizations - pickle MU - 10/19 10:28:44
          bullshyte. You have openly stated all of that. - RHAYWORTH MU - 10/19 10:40:21
               not even once (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 11:05:05
               Imagine being such a degenerate that when - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:41:18
                    Yet, at same time, pickle has NEVER denounced them. - RHAYWORTH MU - 10/19 10:49:48
                         LOL... obviously you don't even understand or remember - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:51:47
                              I put the questions to him in a simple yes or no format. - RHAYWORTH MU - 10/19 10:56:52
                                   maybe you are just too retarded to ask a question - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:59:29
                                        pretty sure you just described yourself there, idiot. - RHAYWORTH MU - 10/19 11:19:25
                                             Have you stopped raping kids yet? - ashtray UF - 10/19 11:45:11
                         Or we are told they are strawman arguments - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:51:16
                    imagine being such a degenerate, when faced with your - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:42:49
               never to early to post a lie, is it PEDOWORTH? (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:41:07
     The natural, negative rights are the rights to - ummmm MU - 10/19 10:27:43
          I know that - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:30:16
               From your moral stance, how are you able to determine - dangertim MU - 10/19 10:44:06
                    I believe there is a right for consenting adults to do - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:46:56
                         They are victims if their rights are violated during the act - dangertim MU - 10/19 10:53:01
                         How is one victimized by seeing an adult jerking off? - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:49:47
                              Children being exposed to sexuality at young ages - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:52:59
                                   we should outlaw divorces and single parent pregnancies - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:54:57
                                        I believe we should make those more difficult - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:59:03
                                             You justified outlawing wanking - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:01:37
                                                  One is openly immoral behavior in front of - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:08:39
                                                       what right is infringed upon? (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 11:18:40
                                                            his feelings (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 12:25:52
                                                       An unwed parent or divorce - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:14:36
                                                            No, being a very good unwed parent is a very moral - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:18:36
                                                                 That would be fornication though which is a mortal sin.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 11:29:50
                                                                      I was asked about being an unwed parent - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:46:46
                                                                           Only if they repent of fornication otherwise they are not - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 12:15:36
                                                                 It is still damaging to kids - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:24:06
                                                                      So is a poor diet - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:25:58
                                                                           How is that not immoral - meatiger MU - 10/19 11:27:40
                                                                                And purposefully feeding your child crap would be - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:31:32
                                                                                     And this is where you argued yourself into a circle. - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:40:34
                                                                                          He always starts at the end - meatiger MU - 10/19 12:04:57
                                                                                          Junk food - yes. Feces - no - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:48:39
                                                                                               Now it is excessive sexuality? lol(nm) - meatiger MU - 10/19 12:05:38
                                                                                                    pure emotion, no logic or reason (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 12:25:32
                                                                                               but you are polluting a temple of the holy spirit. Who made - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:59:54
                                   too much screen time is also damaging(nm) - dangertim MU - 10/19 10:54:55
                              he's a great virtue signaler, though - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:52:46
               "right" does not mean "entitled to" or "authorized to do" - ummmm MU - 10/19 10:35:30
                    So is there a right to possess child porn or - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:38:15
                         No, there is no specific right to those actions. - ummmm MU - 10/19 10:47:31
                              Then you truly need to remove pickle, ashtray from group. - RHAYWORTH MU - 10/19 10:52:57
                                   They don't do that. That's the strawman that I just - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:33:37
                                   your straw man arguments are not my beliefs (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 11:10:04
                                   Well stated - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:09:41
                                   nobody supports your pedophilia, PEDOWORTH (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:53:34
                              Only because libertarians here have taken those - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:50:05
                                   They haven't taken those positions. That is the strawman - ummmm MU - 10/19 11:34:52
                                        coming up on 7 years when 4Tigs created it - pickle MU - 10/19 11:43:11
                                   no one has taken those positions - pickle MU - 10/19 11:13:03
                                   The abortion view is a mixed view - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:52:46
                                        also..the comments by DG and ummm - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:53:09
                                             I would hope so - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:02:59
               why not just post "I don't understand what a right is"? - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:31:15
          but if you do not force your morals unto others - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:29:23
               Libertarianism is a moral code meat(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:30:57
                    no it isn’t. It informs a moral code based on natural rights - pickle MU - 10/19 11:08:54
                    No it isn't.(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 10/19 10:32:20
                    you are trying to force your personal morals onto it - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:31:38
                         So it’s OK to impose a bit of morality - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:32:51
                              your morals are based off personal choices/emotion - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:34:40
                                   Oh, you mean his views on natural rights - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:35:46
                                        His view are consistent...yours are not - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:42:47
                                             But since his moral code is consistent in your eyes - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:11:08
                                        What did the Founding Father's say about killin babies and - Catturd USMC - 10/19 10:41:39
                                             what did the founders say about those?(nm) - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:43:31
                                             And notice none of them address the stated views - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:42:54
                                                  LOL.. so NOW you're looking for discussion - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:43:39
     No individual libertarian here speaks for all - glue MU - 10/19 10:27:21
          4TalibansinMichigan is locked into identity politics - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:29:26
          But outside of ummmm on the abortion point - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:28:46
               then you aren't paying attention(nm) - dangertim MU - 10/19 10:46:26
               his reason on abortion - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:30:39
                    He made clear there is no such right - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:31:57
                         pickle also posted an article that also refuted that there - dangertim MU - 10/19 10:47:05
                              Well if he has changed his position, good for him - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 11:14:32
                                   that's a dumb excuse for your laziness and innatention(nm) - dangertim MU - 10/19 11:43:48
                                        you see, i once said “**** the police” - pickle MU - 10/19 11:52:56
                                   no, that’s not why (nm) - pickle MU - 10/19 11:20:26
                         Did you read the follow up in the question I posed?(nm) - meatiger MU - 10/19 10:33:35
                         he's also incorrect (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:33:13
               because they’re straw man arguments - pickle MU - 10/19 10:30:26
     Day 2, electic boogaloo(nm) - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 10/19 10:26:14
          Will anyone defend those stated views as moral - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:27:36
               Looks like we have our answer - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:33:43
     LOL. nm. - MUTGR MU - 10/19 10:25:21
     smug collectivist troll (nm) - SwampTiger MU - 10/19 10:25:02
          I will take that as clear concession(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:26:10
               smug dishonest troll (nm) - SwampTiger MU - 10/19 10:32:53
                    Better that than an immoral pervert(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 10/19 10:34:28
                         smug immoral troll (nm) - SwampTiger MU - 10/19 10:39:10
                         lying is immoral unless you're a fake Christian, too (nm) - ashtray UF - 10/19 10:36:40




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