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wrong, like i said, you don’t understand it

Posted on: March 4, 2020 at 13:14:34 CT
pickle MU
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Here is the beginning of that particular chapter:

We have now established each man's property right in his own person and in the virgin land that he finds and transforms by his labor, and we have shown that from these two principles we can deduce the entire structure of property rights in all types of goods. These include the goods which he acquires in exchange or as a result of a voluntary gift or bequest.

There remains, however, the difficult case of children. The right of self-ownership by each man has been established for adults, for natural self-owners who must use their minds to select and pursue their ends. On the other hand, it is clear that a newborn babe is in no natural sense an existing self-owner, but rather a potential self-owner.[1] But this poses a difficult problem: for when, or in what way, does a growing child acquire his natural right to liberty and self-ownership? Gradually, or all at once? At what age? And what criteria do we set forth for this shift or transition?...

Even from birth, the parental ownership is not absolute but of a "trustee" or guardianship kind. In short, every baby as soon as it is born and is therefore no longer contained within his mother's body possesses the right of self-ownership by virtue of being a separate entity and a potential adult. It must therefore be illegal and a violation of the child's rights for a parent to aggress against his person by mutilating, torturing, murdering him, etc. On the other hand, the very concept of "rights" is a "negative" one, demarcating the areas of a person's action that no man may properly interfere with. No man can therefore have a "right" to compel someone to do a positive act, for in that case the compulsion violates the right of person or property of the individual being coerced. Thus, we may say that a man has a right to his property (i.e., a right not to have his property invaded), but we cannot say that anyone has a "right" to a "living wage," for that would mean that someone would be coerced into providing him with such a wage, and that would violate the property rights of the people being coerced. As a corollary this means that, in the free society, no man may be saddled with the legal obligation to do anything for another, since that would invade the former's rights; the only legal obligation one man has to another is to respect the other man's rights.

Applying our theory to parents and children, this means that a parent does not have the right to aggress against his children, but also that the parent should not have a legal obligation to feed, clothe, or educate his children, since such obligations would entail positive acts coerced upon the parent and depriving the parent of his rights. The parent therefore may not murder or mutilate his child, and the law properly outlaws a parent from doing so. But the parent should have the legal right not to feed the child, i.e., to allow it to die.[2] The law, therefore, may not properly compel the parent to feed a child or to keep it alive.[3] (Again, whether or not a parent has a moral rather than a legally enforceable obligation to keep his child alive is a completely separate question.) This rule allows us to solve such vexing questions as: should a parent have the right to allow a deformed baby to die (e.g., by not feeding it)?[4] The answer is of course yes, following a fortiori from the larger right to allow any baby, whether deformed or not, to die. (Though, as we shall see below, in a libertarian society the existence of a free baby market will bring such "neglect" down to a minimum.)
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     Water rights has been one of my concerns - DC Jayhawk KU - 3/4 14:05:30
          the solution is to buy it yourself. - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:22:15
     Who controls the spice?(nm) - Danny Whizzbang USA - 3/4 12:58:45
          He who controls the spice - TigerJackSwartz MU - 3/4 13:20:05
     ^^^ "I'm smart because I post other people's... - Gyro MU - 3/4 12:51:57
          property rights (nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 12:51:20
     Ah yes, Murray who thought parents should be able to - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 12:50:30
          what if they aborted them instead? - dangertim MU - 3/4 13:09:49
               Rothbard supported abortion rights - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:10:54
                    Incorrect. At least read the work - pickle MU - 3/4 13:15:53
                         also, are you saying he didn't support abortion rights? - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:34:15
                         from your own link - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:17:29
                              What key word did you leave out in your above post? - pickle MU - 3/4 13:20:41
                                   I copy and pasted directly from your own text - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:23:13
                                        Lol no you didn’t - pickle MU - 3/4 13:25:19
                                             you are seriously an idiot. - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:25:56
                                                  Because you called your own words a copy/paste? - pickle MU - 3/4 13:27:49
                                                       No, I copied and pasted from the text you included below - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:29:10
                                                            Wait..not the post i was referring to - pickle MU - 3/4 13:34:32
                                                                 I added more copy/pasted text. I didn't edit anything (nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:36:19
                                                                      This post - pickle MU - 3/4 13:37:36
                                                                           Rothbard: - JeffB MU - 3/4 14:02:21
                                                                           There is nothing incorrect or left out of that statement - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:43:59
                                                                                There is a key word you left out. - pickle MU - 3/4 13:47:29
                                                                                     copied & pasted from Rothbard: - JeffB MU - 3/4 14:04:30
                                                                                     I have literally copied and pasted the text that you - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:02:08
                                                                                          Not here you didn’t - pickle MU - 3/4 14:03:22
                                                                                               I left nothing out. Please explain what you think I left - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:04:44
                                                                                                    you left out the word legal, MBS. It’s the crux of the argmt - pickle MU - 3/4 14:06:48
                                                                                                         That is extremely redundant for someone who does not - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:09:22
                                                                                                              No, it is not redundant. It is critical to the argument - pickle MU - 3/4 14:10:48
                                                       And, from your own HIGHLIGHTED COPY AND PASTE - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:28:49
          this is your being low information again - pickle MU - 3/4 12:52:05
               lol, the "free market of children" - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 12:54:59
                    you don’t (nm) - pickle MU - 3/4 12:57:55
                         I do. But sure, tell me what I don't know. - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:04:20
                              then explain it - pickle MU - 3/4 13:10:34
                                   I have multiple times ITT(nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:11:56
                                        you haven’t even once (nm) - pickle MU - 3/4 13:15:01
                                             RE: you haven’t even once (nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:17:49
                         Explain it to him then. The board, like Ross Perot is - JeffB MU - 3/4 13:03:07
                              A parent who doesn't want their kid - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:09:15
                                   wrong, like i said, you don’t understand it - pickle MU - 3/4 13:14:34
                                        But a parent should have a right to let his child(ren) die - JeffB MU - 3/4 13:27:14
                                             According to Pickle and Rothbard, there is no such thing - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:30:16
                                                  And there’s the straw man - pickle MU - 3/4 13:38:51
                                                       I've literally asked you, on here, is child neglect - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:41:46
                                                            That’s not what you said - pickle MU - 3/4 13:45:49
                                                                 RE: That’s not what you said - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:47:39
                                                                      Those are two separate things - pickle MU - 3/4 13:49:05
                                                                           So, in your mind, neglect of a child CAN occur - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:59:41
                                                                                what's funny about that? (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/4 14:01:55
                                                                                Of course there is such a thing as child neglect - pickle MU - 3/4 14:01:24
                                                                                     morality is different person to person. If not for the legal - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:11:22
                                        I've read all of that. Parents have no obligation to raising - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:16:48
                                             you still don’t get it - pickle MU - 3/4 13:23:49
                                                  lol, I've read it many times. I regularly read - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:25:32
                                                       He is saying that parents have a legal right to let their - JeffB MU - 3/4 13:37:44
                                                            No, Jeff. You got it wrong as always (nm) - pickle MU - 3/4 13:39:35
                                                                 B.S. Please explain where you think I am wrong... of course - JeffB MU - 3/4 14:53:02
                                                                 Here's your chance. Explain my misunderstanding. Rather - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:42:46
                                                                      i don’t discuss topics with you, Jeff - pickle MU - 3/4 13:44:12
                                                                           I'm not Jeff(nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 13:46:26
                                                                                lol no, you aren’t - pickle MU - 3/4 14:00:11
                                                                                     Says the anarcho capitalist who thinks gov't should be - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:10:26
                                                                                          Not a legal obligation - pickle MU - 3/4 14:11:58
                                                                                               and therefore, in a society with no gov't, no obligation - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:14:39
                                                                                                    No legal obligation - pickle MU - 3/4 14:16:51
                                                                                                         I have followed the terms. No legal argument, I'm with you - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:17:58
                                                                                                              You haven’t - pickle MU - 3/4 14:21:49
                                                                                                                   I'm not mis-characterizing it. I'm laying it out - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:28:17
                                                                                                                        it would be easier to sell the child to a broker - ashtray UF - 3/4 14:32:16
                                                                                                              Incorrect - ashtray UF - 3/4 14:18:37
                                                                                                                   the irony is that in an anarcho-capitalist - pickle MU - 3/4 14:23:58
                                                                                                                        but how does an anarcho-capitalist society impose its laws - JeffB MU - 3/4 14:35:15
                                                                                                                        nobody here would understand that - ashtray UF - 3/4 14:29:40
                                                                                                                             Not at all. The absent of the state - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:55:41
                                                                                                                                  why do you believe that? - ashtray UF - 3/4 14:57:40
                                                                                                                                       those without the means to hire those to invetigate - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:59:17
                                                                                                                                            there would be no homless people in my - ashtray UF - 3/4 15:01:05
                                                                                                                                                 Well that would clearly not be the case (nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 15:08:01
                                                                                                                                                      as long as we're making up scenarios to fit - ashtray UF - 3/4 15:17:36
                                                                                                                        I've already addressed the problems in your society as - MrBlueSky MU - 3/4 14:29:32
                                                                                                    you can't legislate morality (nm) - ashtray UF - 3/4 14:15:09
                         I googled it. He did indeed say that. - RHAYWORTH MU - 3/4 13:01:49
                              yes, i don’t dispute he said it - pickle MU - 3/4 13:09:15
                                   Give it up, you sick child selling freak. - RHAYWORTH MU - 3/4 14:02:56
                                        why am I not surprised Mr. Libertarian doesn't - ashtray UF - 3/4 14:17:57
                                        oh for ****’s sake - pickle MU - 3/4 14:17:36
          RE: Ah yes, Murray who thought parents should be able to - TigerJackSwartz MU - 3/4 12:52:01




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