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People can think beyond the surface and still render

Posted on: June 20, 2018 at 09:29:03 CT
90Tiger STL
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M.O.B. Votes:
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conclusions different from yours.

I don't live in a governmentless, forceless society nor do I believe that unfettered entry to a governed nation state is wholly moral or without victim in the long run.

and although I believe humans are inherently good, it doesn't imply that desperate humans are inherently incapable of theft, rape, murder nor do I believe that a society such as ours which is so dependent upon government can be sustained with unlimited population and drain.

this isn't chapter 5 in a Mises book.

You don't live there and neither do I.
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If you could set aside your partisanship and slavish devotio - pickle MU - 6/20 09:13:08
     lecturing about slavish devotion, lol (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:34:58
     Because sovereign countries have the right to determine - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 09:44:38
          countries don't have rights, but governments, once in - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:35:43
          Sovereign countries don't have rights. Only people have - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:02:50
               People can form a country and set borders to exclude - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:18:45
                    You definitely do not believe the former. - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:23:29
                         I'm not against secession per se - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:28:48
                              Which secession is ok and which aren't? - pickle MU - 6/20 10:37:25
                                   I'm not against any really, but there will likely be - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:39:15
                                        So you've recently had a change of heart - pickle MU - 6/20 10:41:06
                              I suppose you support the US colonies secession from the - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:32:37
                                   Yes of course I support it though it isn't a "seccession" - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:36:34
                                        uh - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:57:54
                                        Why not? (nm) - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:38:45
                                        It was secession - pickle MU - 6/20 10:38:26
     People do not have the right to enter another territory - Spanky KU - 6/20 09:32:22
          Borders do not exist in nature. - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:04:25
               They absolutely do, they may not be called "borders" - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:20:15
                    Yes, men by nature are territorial. - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:24:02
                         nation states are part of the nature of man - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:29:54
                              that's incorrect (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:38:59
                                   well maybe in Pickletopia - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:41:00
                                        clever (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:51:03
                              How so? Just because they presently exist? (nm) - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:33:28
                                   not just presently (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:36:16
                                        The past thousand years? two thousand years? - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:39:19
                                             200,000 years and basically as soon as man was - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:50:49
                                                  Large nation states have not been around for 200,000 years. - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:55:49
                                                       the discussion wasn't just about "large" nation states - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:59:30
                                                            native Americans did not have nation states (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 12:43:33
                                                            Every point I've made in this thread is about large nation - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:00:55
                                                                 every post not made by you wasn't referring solely to - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 11:06:48
                                                                      Generally speaking, yes, every post by me in this thread - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:08:05
                                                       he didn't say they were, he said man has been around for 200 - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:57:37
                                                            "not just presently" (nm) - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:01:22
                                                            moreover, i didn't refer to "large" nor did anyone else unti - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 11:01:16
                                                                 I referred to large nation states. That's the reality of - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:04:18
                                                                      today isn't the entirety of man's nature, which is the - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 11:08:23
                                                                           Yes, but the OP and this entire week has been about - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:17:03
                                             Man has banded together since the beginning of time - Spanky KU - 6/20 10:43:13
                                                  And for that matter, large populations of people currently - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:49:44
                                                  Again Spanky, we're talking about large nation-states - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:43:54
                                                       Pickle said we were NOT talking about nation states - Spanky KU - 6/20 11:16:26
                                   we really don't have that great of a sample size - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:34:45
                                        I disagree they are an inevitability, despite their present - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:43:25
               Answered your question.(nm) - tcat UMKC - 6/20 10:11:32
                    Thanks. (nm) - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:12:21
               Borders DO exist in nature - Spanky KU - 6/20 10:10:21
                    Wait, are we talking about nation state borders or borders - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:11:24
                         Sorry.. From my response to the OP: - Spanky KU - 6/20 11:02:37
                              I think that's interesting - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:04:58
                         Quick quistion, If borders are made by people and that exist - tcat UMKC - 6/20 10:15:33
                              No. They do not exist in nature. - pickle MU - 6/20 10:24:18
                                   You are ignorant - Spanky KU - 6/20 11:03:37
                                        They don't. Name one. Show me one (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 12:42:34
                              That's a good question - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:22:18
          Everyone has a right to travel freely - pickle MU - 6/20 09:34:26
               READ! and then address why borders exist in nature - Spanky KU - 6/20 10:01:58
                    borders don't exist in nature (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:18:44
                         Then we are done... because you will NOT deal with facts - Spanky KU - 6/20 10:41:59
                              hilarious (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:51:51
               We know you didn't, but he did. You don't get to decide - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:37:07
     This is another perfect example - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:27:23
          a perfect example of what? (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 09:28:21
               Lazy response - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:28:58
                    I didn't make a response; I started a thread - pickle MU - 6/20 09:31:01
                         It can't be spelled out any more - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:34:44
                              perhaps it could if you would answer the question - pickle MU - 6/20 09:37:09
                                   I'm answering your questions. - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:42:37
                                        You didn't and you haven't - pickle MU - 6/20 09:46:38
                                             congratulations, you're now officially worse than JG (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:51:56
                                             Thanks for not clicking on links to your own posts - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:51:18
                                                  RE: Thanks for not clicking on links to your own posts - pickle MU - 6/20 09:59:42
                                                       Just wow. - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 10:11:26
     Why do you insist we change our minds? Never Yours? - RHAYWORTH MU - 6/20 09:24:52
          If you could present a compelling argument - pickle MU - 6/20 09:30:22
               the fvck you will. your response will be to continue to - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:39:27
               Hilarious! I needed that laugh. - RHAYWORTH MU - 6/20 09:33:12
                    I held neoconservative views not long ago - pickle MU - 6/20 09:42:36
                         Is it necessary to debate the legitimacy of the state in - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:44:57
     Simple - because I live in a Nation, not a free range slab o - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:24:15
          So a few questions: - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:07:45
          Wow, that was really good. And while I realize that a - hokie VT - 6/20 09:31:14
          Well stated. - RHAYWORTH MU - 6/20 09:26:45
     You have no right to travel freely - MIZZOUowns SEC - 6/20 09:22:05
          Everyone has a right to travel freely (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 09:28:48
     They do not have a right to move freely and live where they - tcat UMKC - 6/20 09:21:00
          Everyone has that right (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 09:31:31
               Where is the proof or is that - tcat UMKC - 6/20 09:38:11
                    Do you exist? - pickle MU - 6/20 09:43:22
                         So if I don't know that some people exist, then they don't? - tcat UMKC - 6/20 10:18:12
                              Huh? (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:25:18
     my personal overly simplistic opinion - cnk ATL - 6/20 09:18:41
     Ok, I've set it aside. Now what?(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 6/20 09:18:37
     If the US did not have a legal means to citizenship - Sal KC - 6/20 09:15:45
          It isn't just about citizenship. It is also the flow of - TigerMatt MU - 6/20 09:19:13
               Right (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 09:31:59
                    wrong - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:39:54
               Oh, so all immigrants who come to the US are here for - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:25:51
          But that is using force against someone - pickle MU - 6/20 09:17:52
               People can think beyond the surface and still render - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:29:03




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