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A number of problems with your analysis there...
Posted on: October 13, 2017 at 13:19:53 CT
JeffB MU
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TigerMatt: The thing I don't get about Christianity is a person can live a clean moral life based on what they know and their conscience, but not believe in a Christian God as they don't see evidence existence of such a being. You'll have some Christians saying God will torment them forever.
That may be what "some Christians" say, but is a perversion of the teachings of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, "the pillar and bulwark of truth". The Church teaches that no one goes to hell unless they have committed a '"mortal sin" and have not repented of it. Three things are required for a sin to be mortal... to fully separate one from God: 1. It must be a grave sin, 2. It must be done with full knowledge, 3. It must be fully consented to by the guilty party. CCC 1857 http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1855
The person you describe above would not be rejecting Him and His Church "with full knowledge". Of course the Church teaches that there are two types of ignorance about the moral law, "invincible ignorance", and "culpable ignorance".
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a6.htm#1790
IV. ERRONEOUS JUDGMENT
1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.
1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.
1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.
TigerMatt: Then you'll see them exault David who had a woman's husband murdered to try to cover up him knocking up the wife. Or Paul who tortured Christians before coverting and writing the majority of the New Testament.
God can forgive gross sins, but then someone who is good but just doesnt see God's existence is gonna fry forever.
I think we are all lucky that Our Lord will forgive even the most heinous of sins, if we humble ourselves and repent. We are all sinners after all. "The unforgivable sin", is the sin that is not repented of, whether that is due to despair in thinking that God could not or would not forgive us for some grievous sin, or because of presumption that God is all loving and will forgive everyone whether they have repented or not.
As to the second half of your sentence, that is not the teaching of the Church, as noted above.
That may be what "some Christians" say, but is a perversion of the teachings of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, "the pillar and bulwark of truth". The Church teaches that no one goes to hell unless they have committed a '"mortal sin" and have not repented of it. Three things are required for a sin to be mortal... to fully separate one from God: 1. It must be a grave sin, 2. It must be done with full knowledge, 3. It must be fully consented to by the guilty party. CCC 1857 http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1855
The person you describe above would not be rejecting Him and His Church "with full knowledge". Of course the Church teaches that there are two types of ignorance about the moral law, "invincible ignorance", and "culpable ignorance".
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a6.htm#1790
IV. ERRONEOUS JUDGMENT
1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.
1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.
1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.
TigerMatt: Then you'll see them exault David who had a woman's husband murdered to try to cover up him knocking up the wife. Or Paul who tortured Christians before coverting and writing the majority of the New Testament.
God can forgive gross sins, but then someone who is good but just doesnt see God's existence is gonna fry forever.
I think we are all lucky that Our Lord will forgive even the most heinous of sins, if we humble ourselves and repent. We are all sinners after all. "The unforgivable sin", is the sin that is not repented of, whether that is due to despair in thinking that God could not or would not forgive us for some grievous sin, or because of presumption that God is all loving and will forgive everyone whether they have repented or not.
As to the second half of your sentence, that is not the teaching of the Church, as noted above.
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A number of problems with your analysis there... - JeffB MU - 10/13 13:19:53