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Not so black and white. Obviously you need talent

Posted on: June 14, 2012 at 08:32:05 CT
FIJItiger MU
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Which is why we have Fuller and why Haith has a reputation as a tremendous recruiter. No coach can overcome a dramatic talent deficiency. But ONLY havig recruiters is a big problem. Hopefully we don't re-create the same model that we MU fans got to experience fail.

Rich Daly was great for MU. Having only Rich Daly's wouldn't have been so great.
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Regarding Nestor leaving, its interesting - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 07:31:13
     RE: Regarding Nestor leaving, its interesting - bobbileedham MU - 6/15 11:00:53
          No, I consider them seperate functions (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/15 11:10:43
     I'm wondering why he left(nm) - alstl MU - 6/14 17:11:22
          RE: I'm wondering why he left(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 17:23:10
     Also, the whole NAVY training thing... Nestor's idea(nm) - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 13:05:11
          The Navy Seals "Program" was used by about 200 sports teams - tigersfan MU - 6/14 14:25:03
          he's older than i thought(nm) - Bucknell Bison MU - 6/14 13:44:28
               Very nicely played(nm) - Erwin Fletcher STL - 6/14 13:47:47
               lol(nm) - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 13:45:54
     I'm sure Nestor was good - quinsnyderjr MU - 6/14 12:28:09
          Possibly, but less racist (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 13:07:05
          I think it's more of the rumor that we're getting rid of a - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 12:59:25
          It's not that big of a deal. We shouldn't turn it into one. - Uncle John MU - 6/14 12:41:53
               It wouldn't be a huge deal if he had simply left. The rumor - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 13:04:13
                    Asking a coach to do the full duties of his job is worrisome - tgr MU - 6/14 14:55:33
                         So he was hired to recruit last year, but just didn't - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 15:09:51
                         How many times should I ask this question? Why did we hire - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 15:06:25
                              "Why did we hire him in the first place?" - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 15:17:26
                                   "Players get better when they work with Coach Nestor" - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 15:33:32
                                   Exactly, we had no intention of him helping with recruiting - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 15:21:35
                                        Right, everyone had clearly defined roles and expectations - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 15:26:58
                    Hmm.... wonder where a rumor like that could get started?(nm) - tigersfan MU - 6/14 14:11:31
                         Steve Walentik reported it, it did not start on TB. - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 14:13:42
                              First I had heard of it was on here and it seems to - tigersfan MU - 6/14 14:28:43
                                   Here is the source of that position - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 15:10:56
     I'm sorry he's leaving, but he was something like 60 games - MUTGR SEC - 6/14 11:49:58
          agree, he would not be a good option to replace Haith - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 11:55:11
     You gotta be in practice to make that determination - crudup 99 - 6/14 10:42:04
          By what everyone around the program says - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 12:53:35
          I don't have to be in practices to know - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 10:52:59
               Head coach is the coach - crudup 99 - 6/15 01:01:32
               Sounds like you are building an excuse for down the road if - quinsnyderjr MU - 6/14 12:34:04
                    CMA's last year was not a very good team. Same - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 16:05:48
                         Or they were actually coached.(nm) - Erwin Fletcher STL - 6/14 17:25:39
                              I always liked CMA. Sure he could have done - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 17:43:03
                         We barely made the tourney. Weren't we like 4th to last - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 16:20:07
                         Last ranked in the top 15 on Jan 31st poll at #14(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 16:08:59
                              That's surprising. I've tried to forget that year. - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 17:41:46
               Actually you do. You don't have a clue who was doing what - tgr MU - 6/14 10:57:52
                    So we should ignore everything we heard from the players, - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 12:57:27
                         Link me some of these things you have heard.. - tgr MU - 6/14 15:09:20
                              No one is saying he's irreplaceable. But it gets a lot harde - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 15:13:29
                    Yes I do. Because variables were held constant - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 11:23:28
     I think you misunderstood my Nestor v Hammonds post - iDr SEC - 6/14 10:34:11
          I guess the alternative is fold up the program (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 10:47:59
               alternative to moving on? - iDr SEC - 6/14 10:54:31
                    I'm not obsessed about it, I'm providing an offseason topic - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 11:25:51
                         I wish you'd provide a topic that I didn't feel - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 14:45:02
     Somebody has to coach em up - mu7176grad MU - 6/14 10:08:45
     RE: Regarding Nestor leaving, its interesting - Ragarm MU - 6/14 10:05:42
          So it was Fuller or Chew? - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 10:09:18
               RE: So it was Fuller or Chew? - Ragarm MU - 6/14 13:15:32
                    But you just said it like you knew... - Mizzmi27 MU - 6/14 13:28:04
                         RE: But you just said it like you knew... - Ragarm MU - 6/15 07:35:22
               Fuller gameplanned the ku game in Columbia, probably the - tgr MU - 6/14 10:16:04
                    That wasn't a very well played game for us - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 10:45:50
                    Who game planned the ku game in Lawrence. That was - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 10:22:09
                         I imagine it was probably Fuller as well.(nm) - tgr MU - 6/14 10:35:45
          Was he a major contributor to it? - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 10:09:00
     Ok, Quin's teams were bad for many, many reasons. That - RememberQuantrill MU - 6/14 08:35:25
     Stewart never had very good years unless he had two - MakeShift MU - 6/14 08:28:04
          That's exactly right. Norm wasn't a strong recruiter, so - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:29:00
               We don't necessarily need to hire someone who is an - tgr MU - 6/14 09:36:23
                    I agree with most of that. I'm not sold on Leitao though.(nm) - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:38:55
                         I don't know how much better we can do than a guy - tgr MU - 6/14 09:41:55
                              Does any of that information prove that he is a great - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:50:04
                                   Compare his resume to Nestor's. I can only go by - tgr MU - 6/14 10:17:01
                                        We aren't trying to hire a head coach - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 10:33:34
                                             Quin would be a good assistant if we were looking for - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 10:38:03
                                             Then we can compare what their teams did when they were - tgr MU - 6/14 10:37:05
                                                  I don't care if he won 5 national championships, if his - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 10:44:02
                                                       And how do you know what his strengths are? - tgr MU - 6/14 10:53:44
                                                            I respect him tremendously, but I question this particular - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 11:28:59
                                                  Are you assuming that Leitao had the same role as Nestor?(nm) - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 10:39:47
                                                       Nope. But are you assuming that he didn't have that role? - tgr MU - 6/14 10:46:35
                                                            Our players do, and they seemed to give Nestor quite a - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 11:30:41
                                        What I'm saying is that stuff doesn't matter. - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 10:24:03
                              This guy used to be available - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 09:45:38
                                   Doesn't recruit. Need a coach who can recruit as well.(nm) - tgr MU - 6/14 10:14:01
                                        Disagree, but we will see and I hope I'm proven wrong (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 10:22:32
               Exactly. I'm not trying to make an argument that you need - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 09:33:55
          Not so black and white. Obviously you need talent - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:32:05
     Why do you assume any replacement couldn't coach?(nm) - SuperTone MU - 6/14 08:10:54
          I don't. I just don't know whereas before this development - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:21:04
               So if we don't go 30-5, it's because we lost Nestor? - Dirk Diggler MU - 6/14 08:27:07
                    Nope. But if we don't have superior - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:29:32
                         To give Nestor credit for all that isn't fair to our players - tgr MU - 6/14 08:35:33
                              Nestor shouldn't get all the credit, but to place more credi - iDr SEC - 6/14 10:37:29
                              Agreed. The players we had probably didn't require as - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:25:07
                              Agree with all of that. (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:42:11
     What happened the years after John Hammond left? - tgr MU - 6/14 08:06:23
          Pretty terrible too - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:25:47
               Here are 3 stats from Hammond's last year and the two - tgr MU - 6/14 08:49:14
                    Hammond didn't have nearly the same impact as Nestor - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 09:04:15
               Now what was it when Hammond was here? - tgr MU - 6/14 08:31:29
                    Unfortunately, just being honest, I don't have that data - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:35:04
                         You claim that "our coaching fell off dramatically", but the - tgr MU - 6/14 08:40:22
                              Why not? A poorly coached team can't win a game? - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:44:36
                                   And we also averaged more wins and had better offensive - tgr MU - 6/14 08:51:24
          The quality of play declined dramatically almost immediately - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:16:45
               Didn't Hammonds leave the year Keyon went pro... - CJsLover MU - 6/14 09:10:00
                    We also had one of the top recruiting classes coming in with - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:22:29
                         Jason Horton was highly rated as well.. - CJsLover MU - 6/14 09:35:55
                              Keyon was a great player, and a great person, but as - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:44:04
                                   Technically, we were 6 points from the Final Four in what - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 09:48:55
                    Correct on the timing. No disagreement that having - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 09:20:12
                         It's hard to know what impact any particular coach has - CJsLover MU - 6/14 09:45:16
                              Agree. Here is what I do know with certainty though - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 10:00:01
                              We'll have a better idea when we get a chance to watch - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:54:31
                                   Agree and disagree somewhat.. - CJsLover MU - 6/14 10:19:24
                                        I can agree with that. - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 10:27:37
               I don't know about "declined dramatically" but we didn't - mizzou john MU - 6/14 08:29:49
               The records would indicate otherwise. - tgr MU - 6/14 08:23:38
                    For the talent those teams had, those are terrible - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:37:09
                         Some people care more about recruits and stars. They - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:14:26
          That "elite 8 run" was a horribly disappointing season until - mizzou john MU - 6/14 08:09:35
               It still was a lot better than the 18-13 season we had - tgr MU - 6/14 08:20:10
                    You're showing your inability to break down the game - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:10:02
                    that team had 1 player (an incoming JUCO) who was - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:40:58
                         I remember Hafer playing center on that team. Crazy.(nm) - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:11:02
                    Agree that the Hammond thing could be totally overrated - mizzou john MU - 6/14 08:22:27
     You forgot #1 offensive efficiency for 2011-2012...nm - MarineinMO USMC - 6/14 08:03:05
          I didn't have the ranking for that in 2005 and 2006 - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:22:10
     John Calipari disagrees. - BLACKnGOLD07 MU - 6/14 07:56:05
          John Calipari has 1 title, and how many years - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:00:46
               That's one more than Mizzou - nm - 90183 MU - 6/14 08:16:54
                    Interesting post coming from someone who claims to be - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:17:11
                         This guy claims to be an MU fan? He is more transperant - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 09:21:19
                              He tried to say he was on the football board once. - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 09:30:50
                                   How embarrassing for him and ku (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 09:32:08
                                        For a good laugh: - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 10:06:30
                                             How embarrassing for humanity (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 10:19:25
                    Mizzou doesn't have WorldWide Wes recruiting for us(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:18:34
               So are we assuming Nestor is the 2nd coming of Wooden? - Dirk Diggler MU - 6/14 08:14:06
                    To a degree, yes. The evidence certainly seems to support - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:19:34
                         Holy sh*t, I hope that is a joke. (nm) - quinsnyderjr MU - 6/14 12:38:22
                         Certainly it had nothing to do with the players - Dirk Diggler MU - 6/14 08:24:43
                              Of course they were a big factor in it. But they for the - FIJItiger MU - 6/14 08:38:05
                    and the last 3 teams he was at weren't world beaters... - SuperTone MU - 6/14 08:16:18
     No question Nestor's departure hurts from a - Erwin Fletcher STL - 6/14 07:40:31
          There is a question to that. We don't know if it will hurt - SuperTone MU - 6/14 08:11:57
               There is truth that we won't know until next season. - Erwin Fletcher STL - 6/14 09:14:17
                    It kind of makes me think that Haith and Fuller may not - BadAsh SEC - 6/14 10:43:25
                         Yeah I have no idea. Just speculating here other than - Erwin Fletcher STL - 6/14 12:38:04




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