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I sure don't. DiamondDave is right. Counting Final 8's or

Posted on: April 4, 2012 at 13:31:17 CT
90Tiger MU
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Final 4's or Final 2's or Final 16's in a 68 team tournament is about as equally meaningless as a conference Sagarin.

Conference and national titles provide trophies and bragging rights. Sagarin ratings and "how many times i advanced X rounds in the big dance" are for people who need validation.

I want MU to make a "Final Four" because it will mean we are 2 wins from a National Championship and it will add to our brand recognition and recruiting.
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Sagarin conference ratings for last 10 seasons - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 12:41:53
     I have a question - RBT STL - 4/4 13:23:53
          I sure don't. DiamondDave is right. Counting Final 8's or - 90Tiger MU - 4/4 13:31:17
               Sagarin measures wins and SOS - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:35:36
                    Wins are good. I don't care what our Sagarin rating is (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 4/4 13:43:19
                    Trophies measure a lot more - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:37:32
                         Well, we got three this year. - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:39:10
                              We had a great season. Didn't win it all but - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:40:30
               Yep and for overall athletic success in all sports - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:34:26
                    Every Director's Cup over the last decade disagrees. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:35:11
                         No, it's a valid and different measure of very different - 90Tiger MU - 4/4 13:46:03
                              Why are you making this personal? - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:50:56
                              Debate....EMAW! - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:47:10
                         that's because the director's cup counts things like - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:38:00
                              He claimed "overall athletic success in sports" - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:41:23
                                   You're just so absurdly argumentative that it renders - 90Tiger MU - 4/4 13:47:12
                                        Great. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:49:24
                                   I think he meant "overal athletic success in revenue sports" - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:43:41
                                        He mentioned baseball in his post. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:46:40
                                             BE has fewer BB NCs than SEC - phrejd KC - 4/4 14:04:16
                                                  Thanks to Kentucky and their 8. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 14:07:38
                                                       based on what? (nm) - phrejd KC - 4/4 14:09:10
                                                            Contributions from all teams. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 14:15:20
                                             BB = hoops. Got it now. - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:51:00
                                                  Of course, BB=hoops. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:53:42
                                                       Yeah, so I was wondering why you mentioned baseball at all - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 14:00:33
                                                            Because you brought it up in your post. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 14:04:10
                                             LSU in 09' and S. Carolina the last 2 years is not owing - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:50:06
                                                  You mentioned a non-revenue sport. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:52:37
                                                       In the SEC, it's a definite revenue sport. It's not women's - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:59:55
                                                            So, now you're redefining "revenue sport" after - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 14:06:12
                                                                 They fill the stands and scholarships - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 14:15:32
                                                                      Then, you should'e said that in your initial post. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 14:27:31
                                        Did you get your B12 Wrestling Champions shirt? - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:45:22
                         Director Cup smack! Non-revenue sport smack! Brilliant - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:37:03
                              Just using your words. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:38:19
               Disagree. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:33:58
                    Of course it matters. - BadAsh SEC - 4/4 13:38:38
                         It's a strawman - nobody here claims the NCAA tournament - 90Tiger MU - 4/4 13:48:42
                              you might want to read the post that I responded to. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:55:36
                    Making the Final Four is obviously better than losing in - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:38:21
                         And, I've never heard of fans of any other team - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:42:49
                              Everyone sets their own goalposts for what they value - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:47:09
                                   Okay. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:54:49
                         All about match-ups. Honestly, kU got the worse bracket - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:39:43
                              Yep. They got a great bracket in the NCAA tourney. - BadAsh SEC - 4/4 13:45:45
                    I have ku alum family members that only care about the title - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:35:55
                         hahaha - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:37:12
                              They're family, so of course. I don't walk around with my - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:38:23
                                   That t-shirt wouldn't matter anyway. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:43:42
          flying asterisks?(nm) - tigerNkc MU - 4/4 13:29:11
          ^^What he said(nm) - Mizzmi27 MU - 4/4 13:24:58
     Top 50 teams by conference in Sagarin - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:11:51
          If you cut it off at top 30 - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:17:57
               Sure. But the SEC is more top heavy than some - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:21:38
                    For me personally,I don't care what the SEC was historically - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:25:33
                    And Minn, Nubs, Penn State, and NW are deplorable too - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:22:53
                         here are the bottom halfs: - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:27:52
                              Funny thing about looking at bottom halves of conferences - BadAsh SEC - 4/4 13:34:24
                                   it adversely affects the SOS of the good teams in the league - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:42:18
                                        I disagree about the non-con games. - BadAsh SEC - 4/4 13:48:28
                                             all the top teams do it and it works out fine for them. - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 14:18:03
                                                  I'm not sure I agree with that either. It's all about - BadAsh SEC - 4/4 14:30:40
                                   Except that is 1/2 of your conference games. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:36:32
                                        Again, the top half will beat the bottom half most of the - BadAsh SEC - 4/4 13:42:00
                                             Most of the time is correct. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:48:39
                                                  I'm not talking B1G basketball. I think most people would - BadAsh SEC - 4/4 14:01:21
                                                       Makes sense to me. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 14:45:40
                              Well, Tenn, MSU, LSU, Ga., Ark, and aTm have been players - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:30:47
                                   yeah, the SEC is just down right now at the bottom - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:32:49
               What's the average SAG ranking by conference? - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:20:38
                    Sagarin rating by conference this year - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:24:15
                         The PAC12 is 6th in that group, or 6th among all - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:28:09
                              6th among all conferences - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:29:19
                    Don't know, I'm using the data from his post (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:21:58
                         Wow, this surprised me. This isn't close. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:29:06
                              yeah, the bottom half of the SEC in basketball pretty much - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:30:43
          Certainly going forward I agree - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:14:53
          Let's just not have a tourney and award the champ by - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:13:12
               I'm not sure if you're new to basketball but - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:16:12
                    I also know head-to-head and competition on the field - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:21:20
                         Nope. It means nothing unless you win the NCAA title. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:30:15
                              Now you're catching on. Winning titles much more important - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:32:23
               You seem unable to grasp - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:15:32
                    Conferences compete against each other for titles - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:18:25
               if you did then the SEC would win this year. - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:14:34
                    Then why argue the strength of a conference? Why would - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:16:44
                         Certainly it's good that the SEC is winning national titles - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:18:52
                              That's why I said they're behind the ACC and Big East - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:22:10
     Wow, someone got under your skin about SEC vs. b12 - BadAsh SEC - 4/4 12:59:53
          RE: Wow, someone got under your skin about SEC vs. b12 - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:03:56
          The facts got under his skin. - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:01:37
     What this tells me is that the SEC has plenty of potential - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 12:56:16
          I agree - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:06:17
               depends on your definition of lately. - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:16:15
                    RE: depends on your definition of lately. - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:28:52
                         The Pac 12 used to be pretty good too. They have a ton of - AndyTiger MU - 4/4 13:32:03
                              If UCLA can figure out a way to restore - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:34:34
     I know this ku fan didn't think much of the conf - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 12:51:37
          Fiji, not many people outside of you were predicting - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:09:52
               Without the Morris's I wasn't predicting a 30 win season - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:14:18
                    RE: Without the Morris's I wasn't predicting a 30 win season - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:20:05
                         You are really confusing me now - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:30:39
                              RE: You are really confusing me now - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:39:27
                                   I'm confused by who the 'we' and 'us' is for you(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:42:00
                                        That isn't what you said - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:44:37
          non sequitur - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 12:52:04
     SEC - 3 titles. B12 - 1 title. B10 - zero titles - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 12:45:47
          Don't forget the Horizon League's dominance! - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 12:48:05
               wait so now it's not final 4 appearances? (nm) - phrejd KC - 4/4 12:49:21
                    Wasn't this his debate point weeks ago? Nm - MIZtigerZOU MU - 4/4 13:09:52
                    If your winning percentage in FFs is 0%, I would never - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 12:54:03
                         "FF means absolutely nothing" - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 12:55:13
                              Reaching the Final Four is losing (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 12:57:38
                                   Heck of a lot better than losing to Norfolk State. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 12:59:22
                                        Which is better than winning 1 NCAA game in 5years nm - MIZtigerZOU MU - 4/4 13:06:34
                                             None of that matters unless you win a NCAA Title. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:07:45
                                                  That's right about winning it all. You have to MAKE it in - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:12:08
                                                       No, MU hasn't been better than Illinois recently. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:13:29
                                        Nice to see Norfolk in the dance. They did what Illinois - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:03:03
                                             But, none of that matters. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:05:52
                                        Yes it is, but its still simply a different level of losing(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 4/4 13:00:40
                              It really doesn't. About as significant as the final four - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 12:56:51
                                   Your comparison to other sports is absurd. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 12:58:19
                                        How is it absurd? What other sport on the planet gives any - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:05:19
                                             Why are you even comparing it to other sports? - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:07:03
                                                  If we were to make it and not win it all, I would NEVER - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:10:43
                                                       You haven't had to worry about that problem. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:12:01
                                                            All or nothing. And please stop embarrassing yourself - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:14:45
                                                                 I'm simply using your logic and argument. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:17:45
                                                                      If you'd like to look at recent history and say Ill hoops - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:24:35
                                                                           No, you are arguing that they are equal. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 13:31:17
                                        I'd say that if we look at recent head-to-head, we're - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 13:00:51
                    Just using DD's metric. - tjwheeler UI - 4/4 12:49:54
     unless those ranking take into account - phrejd KC - 4/4 12:45:20
          They don't matter going forward - RobertPHanssen MU - 4/4 13:11:33
          They don't matter period when discussing Conf. - Diamond Dave MU - 4/4 12:46:48




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